15 year old pipe organ plays!!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Hello Everyone,

    There is a long backstory as to why the organ wasn't being used or played in the last 15 years. The pastor (at that time) told the organist that it will cost way to much money to get the organ fixed and that it is "broken". He eventually got fed up and resigned from his own parish as their organist! In it's replacement is a three manual Rodgers electronic organ which in on the floor of the sanctuary. My friend and I went and turned the organ in the loft on this past Monday morning and the pipe organ works and played. Below is the video of me playing the Christmas Hymn O Come All Ye Faithful. The reason for the hymn is it was the first hymn I opened to with an old ancient hymnal in the loft.

    According to the old pastor it would cost half a million dollars to fix this pipe organ and that was the reasoning for the Rodgers being bought. Also, the organist at that time had raised $14,000 dollars to help with some of the replacements to the old pipe organ but that was taken away from him when the pastor used that money towards the purchase of the Rodgers organ. The pastor also said he didn't want people in the choir loft anymore and wanted them down in the church itself.

    This organ is built by Arthur Morressette, who was a parishioner (from the 30's) of this church where I'm currently organist/music director at.

    Please enjoy the sound of this pipe organ as it is being heard for the first time in 15 years!!

    Thanks!! Leave lots of comments!

    http://youtu.be/cMYJDD7G33g

    :-)



    Thanked by 1ghmus7
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    Wow. A fabulous building. Please restore it!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    My friend has agreed to come over the next two weeks and tune the organ so I can use it to surprise the congregation with the offertory hymn for the opening mass for the year of faith on Oct 14th. He is going to tune the organ for FREE!! and not even charge the church at all.

    I have invited the organist who resigned to come after it's been fully tuned to hear it again for the first time.

    I also forgot to mention this organ has not been tuned in 15 years as you hear it in the video. All I did was go into the loft and it turned on and that's what it sounded like in the video. I'm amazed after 15 years that it sounded that beautiful!!!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I hope that the (it seems, scheming swindler of a) priest who put the organ into hibernation is long gone. Otherwise, not only will none of this matter, but you will find yourself in pretty deep conflict when the [ deceit / misunderstanding ] comes to light.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Yeah, a new pastor was assigned to the parish in July of 2011! :-) What did you think of the video and the organ for not being touched in 15 years or tuned for that matter?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I thought it was lovely.
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    Lovely! Is the Organ Historical Society aware of this instrument? If it hasn't happened already, you might be able to get a historic citation from them for the instrument, and that could be a point of pride for the parish.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    The organ was built in the 1930's. It was renovated in the 1970's, so that does make it still a organ from the 1930's or does the 1970's renovation make it only from the 70's?

    Here is the stop list from the Morressette organ:

    http://www.mathieupipeorgans.net/projects/sacred-heart-webster
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I thought it sounded quite nice, especially after having been left idle for so long.
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    Wow, beautiful!!! Get rid of the rodgers and restore that beauty to it's glory.

    Sounds great :)
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    I am glad you posted the stop list. I love it. Great for romantic music.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    You can see in that video of me in the loft off the left side is the Rodgers Organ that is on the floor. The speakers for the instrument is above me in the second balcony the choir and great and pedal is directly above me and the swell and swell pedal is on the opposite side of the church in the second balcony as well.

    I will be posting my YouTube page in another discussion section for you to listen to and enjoy!
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    If I were you, I would try to get that beautiful pipe organ restored. Than sell that rodgers to someone who desperately needs an electronic instrument.

    Such a beautiful looking church, what a shame they even went with an electronic instrument without full exploring their previous options for the pipe organ.
    That pipe organ sounds great, and when you get it tuned, even better.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    The reason the Rodgers was bought is because there was an organist there who was a very very heavy man. He would never have been able to get into the loft at all! It took him a half hour to walk from the main entrance of the church to the Rodgers. So I can understand why the church would get the Rodgers to help him out, but to say that that beautiful pipe organ doesn't work and it would cost half a million dollars to fix is what I am floored about.
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I will be sure to post a video of it when it is tuned!! :-). What piece should I play?? A hymn or a easy organ piece?? Any thoughts?? My friend and I will spend the next Monday Tuesday and Wednesday of the following two weeks getting it tuned, play with it to make sure there are no flaws or issues that could arise!
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Um... why just the Offertory hymn? Why not "surprise" the congregation by moving the choir up to the loft and doing the whole Mass from up there? And then "surprise" them by doing it from now on.

    Just a suggestion :)
    Thanked by 4Dan F. Ben Ruth Lapeyre donr
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    well I had thought of that but there is so much stuff in the loft I have to climb over the stuff to get to the organ. It is something I'm thinking of! I don't know if the organ would be able to be used for a whole mass yet. It's not in the best shape, but it is in somewhat decent condition. Once my friend and I spend the next two weeks with it, we will be able to get a better feel for the instrument. On Monday we played on it for two hours and I afraid the blower was going to give in since it probably hasn't been oiled in close to 15 years.

    Also, I would have to move the mics up to the loft and there is so much stuff up there, you have no idea!! All the Xmas decorations and the flowers and everything! Funny enough, I thought all the flowers were bought each year and then thrown away, but we use fake ones. It really does look horrible too knowing that they are fake! HAHA.

    Plus I feel bad about just letting the Rodgers sit there and not get used. I might come up with some kind of schedule where I use the real organ for special events and then electronic one most of the time.

    I will get a better sense of it when the congregation hears the really organ for the first time on Oct 14th.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Heartwarming indeed for an instrument that has sat idle for fifteen years.
    I hope that you give it 'pride of place' in your parish worship.
    (And the rodgers no place at all.)
    Getting an historical citation for it is an excellent idea which you should pursue.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    An instrument worth restoring. As for your old pastor, you should ride his sorry a*s out of town scourging him all the way. And for the future, don't hire heavy organists. LOL.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I'm thinking of almost any every other week kind of thing to keep it in constant use and going back and forth between the Rodgers and the Pipe organ in the loft?? What would some other fellow organists do in my case??
  • doneill
    Posts: 207
    If it was substantially altered in the 70's, then a historic citation wouldn't be a strong possibility. That explains the brightness of the sound, which would be atypical of an instrument from the 30's. However, it sounds like it's capable of being restored - either to its original state, or to its 70's state.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I will have to look into how much of the organ was altered in the 70's. Should I look into a historical citation on the instrument. What would getting that citation actually do??
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    "What would some other fellow organists do in my case??"

    Get rid of the Rodgers and use the pipe organ and the choir loft. Move the flowers out of there.

    Actually it's a very adapt example. I always use fake flowers as a reason to use a pipe organ. At my current assignment, we use only real, living flowers... but we use an electric organ. An electric organ, like fake flowers, is a synthetic version of the "real" thing. It's time for you to get rid of the fake flowers and the electric organ - buy real flowers (put on an organ concert series to fund the real flowers if you must!) and use the real organ. Unless somebody carpeted the walls of your church, you shouldn't need microphones up there. Just bring the choir up and leave the microphones elsewhere.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    The citation might persuade the diocese that the instrument is worth saving. I don't know where you are, but what are the regulations there for getting on the register of historic places? If a state or local preservation society would designate the building and the organ, it could create some additional support for rebuilding the instrument.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Well the church is from the later 1800's, it's all stone on the outside and balcony seating on the second level as you can see in the video. The real organ is in the third gallery on it's own. It's a pretty historical church even though there are 2 other Catholic churches within a block of the church I'm at now.
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    I agree with the rest, get rid of that electronic mess, and get that beautiful instrument back up and running weekly. If I was in the same situation, I would toss the fake flowers, clean up the mess, get the choir back where it belongs, and forget about mics.

    It sounds as though you are in a beautiful acoustical environment. I would die to be in an environment as such, and never have to use another mic. Very lucky indeed!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    The cost to fix the instrument completely and get it done right will be roughly $100,000. The number half a million was thrown around when I got the position at the church. I was told by the pastor the organ was broken and not is use. So I was stuck with the Rodgers.
    The finance guy was also on board with not using the old organ and was able to get the finance committee to sign off on getting the Rodgers. With all due respect to both of them, the organist who was there before me was a very very large man and wouldn't have been able to climb three stories to get to the console in the loft. That's why the electric was bought. But I don't know why the pastor and chair of finances decided to tell everyone that the organ is broke and it would cost half a million to fix. But everything is finally starting to click about the pastor lying that the organ didn't work, plus he wanted the choir to start singing from the front of the church since well..... the choir loft you can joke around and not pay attention, which was how he was looking at it!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    When I was talking to a fellow organist he was very concerned that I had it running for two hours or so on Monday. He said I should have only ran it for about a half hour at a time and given it a little rest. Is it possible I did some harm to the blower/motor by having it running for so long? The blower hasn't been oiled probably in 15 years or so. Is that something I should have my friend do when we start the tuning process on Monday. He would have to go into the crawl space to oil the blower/motor.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I don't know what they did in the 30s, but my 1953 Schantz has oil caps on each end of the blower. It takes a non-parafin, non-detergent oil that the serviceman provides. They don't have to be oiled that often, and the service rep oils it during presidential election years. I still have him check it every year.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Now with regards to the citation possibility, does having it restored back in the 1970's affect it from being built in the 1930's? Since it was somewhat restored in the 70's does it make it a 70's organ and not a 30's organ?? I'm a little bit confused about that!

    I have documentation from a blower spec plate saying the wind pressure and speed etc.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Looking at the specification you provided, it was definitely altered in the 70's in a fairly typical fashion of the time. The mixture is pitched too high at 1' for an organ of 30's vintage. A mixture of 2' or 1-1/3' is the standard pitch for a modern Gt. mixture, so it's even too high pitched for the 70's! In an instrument of this size, if there was originally a mixture, it probably would have been pitched at 2' or even 2-2/3'. There was probably no pedal reed, thus the half-length trumpet. Unfortunately, this doesn't give nearly enough fundamental. Much of the specification, however, looks original so the instrument could probably be restored!
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I was called to dinner so I wasn't able to complete my thought. Hopefully, most of the pipework can simply be cleaned and regulated. Stoppers from wood ranks will probably need to be releathered. I assume the chests and reservoirs need to be releathered and the console probably needs some rebuilding. There is also enough vintage pipe work out there that the few stops that appear to have been changed could be replaced by ranks of the period. They might not be original, but they'll fit so much better into the tonal scheme. Good luck with this! Sounds exciting!

    Do you have a builder in mind for future restoration? If not, I would strongly recommend Czelusniak et Dugal Inc. in Northampton, MA. They do wonderful work. In fact, they have an organ at the Basilica in Webster.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I know of Bill, never met him though. I know of his work at the Basicilica. I've covered there numerous times as well! Great sounding instrument! Does that amount of work needed to be done sound like it would match the 100,000 that my friend (another organ builder) quoted me at. The current pastor said the organ was broke and it would cost half a million to fix but I can't see that be correct at all! He just didn't want to deal with it anymore!!! Shame shame shame!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Excuse me the former pastor, NOT current. My typo!
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I think $100000 would probably cover cleaning, re-leathering (assuming the chests haven't had any water damage over the years) and perhaps repairing the console, if it is in decent shape to begin with. Of course, that would mean keeping the console as is, without any updating of the organ relay and combination action. To gut the console and replace the keyboards, pedal boards, and mechanical combination action with solid state would cost about $50-90 K! In terms of tonal stuff, especially replacing the 70's stuff, I think that would exceed the amount you mentioned. Some voicing and regulation of at least some of organ might fit within the budget, though. You could do a couple of stops each year. It will take awhile, but as long as the pipes haven't been badly damaged through time and abuse, you can continue to use these stops until they are gone over. I know several churches that have taken this approach. Try to get a maintenance budget established!

    BTW. Have you heard the organ at the Cathedral in Worcester? I was in charge of the renovation project back in the late 90's. It's and organ worth hearing and playing!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I study with Ian Watson former music director there from 2001-2012. I started lessons with him in January 04! Do you know Ian??
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I don't know Ian, but certainly know of him. I left there in 2000 and moved to Indiana to be near my wife's family. They had an interim for a year and then hired Ian. What a talent!
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Yeah Ian is the man! Were you there when John Sittard was at the cathedral? I think he was right before Ian.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    That would be I!
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Get it tuned, having the voicing checked out and have the keys leveled and action cleaned up so that it is at least playable.

    The fuller restoration can wait until fund permit. You are probably best holding a series of concerts/recitals/fundraisers or even selling the electronic organ to raise funds for the restoration. The key is to get it playing regularly again.
  • Ruth Lapeyre
    Posts: 341
    Musicman what a great organ and the church is beautiful! It reminds me a little of the Cathedral in New Orleans with those galleries. What a shock for the congregation but a great shock, as an old lady in the pews I would be crying my eyes out.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    If you have a good maintenance person in place, you could also do the re-leathering in phases-that way you'll always have some of the organ playing.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Redsox1 is right. Get with a good builder/restorer and ask what repairs have priority, and which ones can be done over time. That also gives you a longer window in which to raise funds, as well as, point out specific goals and accomplishments to the congregation and pastor. They are more likely to contribute to what they can see and hear.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    You know there are going to be the organ haters in the church that will say he has a fully working organ downstairs and they can't appreciate good historical instruments. So I'm sure while some will be very pleased to hear it some will not support it! What I'm going to do is talk to my friend who filmed the video who is a organ builder and see what needs to be done immediately and what can be done over time. So as I told him take it one step at a time and let's do it right and take time with it. Does that sound like a good idea? Especially where the church is not great financially right now. We are hurting but just barely holding our own.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Here is another video showing off the string like skinner sounding strings! And then a solo on the beautiful clarinet stop and then adding the 4' flute and 4' string and finishing with the swell coupled to the principal 8 and 4 on the great!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPoiAXmreLk&feature=youtu.be
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    Let the congregation hear the sounds of what you just played. Get the word out that you want to restore this instrument. Can you get this story in the local newspaper or on the local TV news programs? Is there an AGO chapter in your area? How about The Organ Historical Society? Talk to them and listen to their suggestions.
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    Sneak in at night, open up the Rodgers and pour a bottle of Coke onto the circuit boards. Then announce that the electronic organ is "broken" and will take a half a million dollars to fix. In the meantime, while funds are being raised, use the real organ as a "substitute". Then divert the Rodgers repair funds to its restoration. Voila! Justice is served.
    Thanked by 4ContraBombarde Gavin M. Jackson Osborn MHI
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I am not going to knock Rodgers. I have one at home as a practice instrument, and it serves its purpose well. For churches where the choice is Rodgers, or guitars, definitely Rodgers is a big improvement. However, with this pipe organ you have a real treasure worth restoring and preserving.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Donate the Rodgers to a church that can't afford a good instrument.
    (Someone in your Diocese is suffering along with a Hammond or one of those damn house organs they sell at the Mall).
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    The former pastor must have really loved the former organist to allow him to put that beautiful instrument out of service, calling it broke and needing major repairs.

    From the limited ability to only hear it on youtube, it sounds great. With proper maintenance and careful restoration, you could have a tremendous impact on that church's quality of music. As Adam said, there are plenty of churches needing to replace hammonds, synths, guitars, etc... so get rid of the rodgers, and make some music.

    I would get a preliminary tuneup as soon as possible and feasible, and start using it quickly.

    Congrats on such a great instrument!
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Very beautiful church with a great instrument. Please play it every Sunday
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