I found the thread I referred to:
http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7417/solos-a-cantor-should-know#Item_51

**Disclaimer** This is not directed to anybody in particular.......

Too many times those of us in DM positions run into people who want to use the church as a forum for their pent up frustrations in not being able to sing anywhere else. As a result, we have become "performance based" and not "worship based". It seems to be an ongoing problem in the church, not only with singers, but also with musicians. In my parish, for instance, the first thing my predecessor did was make a CD of the music ministry. It started out as a fund-raiser, but many egos were damaged and it became a nightmare. Musicians were not included, singers were not included, etc. I promised myself when I took over that the music would NEVER go in that direction, and it has not. But, I have had to pay the consequences with many people leaving the choir or coming and going at will.

As far as solos are concerned I think they should be discouraged in the liturgy. If a singer has a God-given talent and feels a strong need to serve, then there are plenty of opportunities during the year to embrace that (cantatas for Christmas, preludes to weddings, etc.).

Anyway, that's just my little humble bit of comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4NFvI5U9w

chonak,

Thanks for your response and advice.

I understand what' you're saying regarding the above song, however we already have "amazing grace" as an approved hymn in our hymnals, in spite of it being based on a private conversion experience, so is the addition of the refrain enough to make it unworthy for Mass?

A good occasion for solos are devotions. Occasionally in my parish there is such a Kirchenmusikalische Andacht, and these are the times when my organ teacher takes out the long organ pieces that don't fit before or after mass and when she accompanies a friend of her singing alto.

PS: Kirchenmusikalisch is the adjective to Kirchenmusik = church music; I couldn't find a suitable word to translate it satisfactorily.

I think too much is being made of this. Yes, a solo would be acceptable after communion if it is suitable in tone for the time in the liturgy, and is eucharistic in theme. I had a cantor sing the Mozart "Ave Verum" this a.m. at a non-choir mass. Beats singing verse after verse of a communion hymn.

lacrimosa, Re: your questions:

1. I don't see much wiggle room in the GIRM (after communion... "if desired, a Psalm or canticle of praise or hymn may be sung by the whole congregation.") for anything besides congregational singing. Does that mean that I personally have NEVER had the choir sing a choral piece after communion? No. (In fact, I do a solo Ave Maria "after communion" at pretty much every wedding!)

2. I would call it a prelude. Someone else can feel free to correct me, but I don't think that there is much or even any formal requirements as to what that would entail, other than sacred music (and common sense.)

3. From whom would you ask permission? I doubt your bishop or even priest would care, and I would be surprised if they were even aware of the relevant GIRM passages!

It comes down to how legalistic you feel you must be, once you try and understand the reasons for why the GIRM gives these directives. Yes, many liturgical atrocities have been committed by people who thought they were "just" bending the rules, but like I've already said, I do push the envelope on this particular directive, and I personally don't think that's a big deal, especially as long as it's the exception, not the rule.

>>easily be ambiguous

or oddly revealing

I find many of these things to be both pseudo-christian AND pseudo-concert.
Also, pseudo-music.

One could say (and have) that those of us who chant the Communion Proper every Sunday... are singing a "solo". Just sayin...

And to clarify what the CMAA (musicasacra.com) is about, see this video from our annual colloquium:
http://vimeo.com/m/8941838

Lacrimosa:

I got beat up before you so you can benefit from my experience.

There are three places that solos seem to be needed: at weddings, at funerals, and during choir breaks (between Epiphany and Ash Wednesday and in July and August.) For weddings and funerals, you are restricted by what the families want and the Church allows. I forgot: I have an excellent list of solos that the parish where my father was buried handed out. It's about 16 songs and they say that's pretty much it. So those two times are really for singers, not composers.

As for choir breaks, then the music needs to conform as much as possible to liturgical norms. In the Archdiocese of Washington, where the directive clearly consists of "follow the rules but make sure there are no calls to Hyattsville (MD, where the curia is)," the open times during the offertory are almost always filled by the organist, even though instrumental music is left out of the norms and so technically in the same area as vocal solos. A well trained instrumentalist can improvise and end right when the priest wants to start up again. The exception to that rule seems to be the African-American congregations, but I suspect you don't write that kind of music. (Which I happen to love, having grown up Baptist.)

That leaves post-Communion or pre-bell. While some people on this list have a straw man arguing style, so that automatically say that you must be talking about Lifeteen lousy-pop, the reality is whether or not it is appropriate depends entirely on what you have written. Someone suggested (on the thread I started) sticking with hymns, but done in a restrained style. My own favorite is Peace Like A River (It is Well With My Soul), perhaps the first truly great song written by an American. Guitar pop--I kind of doubt it is appropriate. A certain style of Celtic derived folk song--it is very easy to see how that could be done right.

And it all depends on the Music Director. I'll bet most don't want frustrated Dylans. Develop your relationship with the MD's, do what they want, have your stuff up on YouTube and available for him or her to look at. Immerse yourself in everything on the web about Sacred Music and see if you can write like that.

But, yes, also, there is a crying need for something other than chirpy-twerpy Christian pop at youth ministry. Somewhere I unleashed a Jeremiad against that stuff on this list. I used to live (way back) with some of the guys running the "legendary Nightclub 9:30," the punk 9:30 Club. And, boy, does Christian pop stink.

So good luck. Do not let the sarcasm of some discourage you from developing a charism that is valid, just not to their tastes.

By the way, flamers, I just love the logic: I asked what solos are necessary, and many of you said, "THERE NOT LICIT!!!! JUST AT FUNERALS AND WEDDINGS." How about sparing us all the micro-readings of the GIRM and just saying, "Oh, not much--just weddings and funerals, so buy a couple of good anthologies and find out what MD's like." I know it is not as much fun, but that just happens to be the question I asked. I mentioned offertory, but how about, "Oh, no, not offertory, just weddings and funerals." 8 words, no lather.

Kenneth

amindthatsuits

We (the flamers?) simply stated facts. I would suggest that you access how you are receiving the information. Could it (by any chance) be that you are the one getting 'hot' under the collar because our informational response goes against the grain of exactly what you want to hear?

Plain truth is, solo pieces are not appropriate to the liturgy. If you want information about the confusion that surrounds this issue, you might want to read this book:

http://www.booksforcatholics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=B&Product_Code=0814610129&Category_Code=

Once you have read this, you will realize that the battle over those who promote sacred music at the liturgy as opposed to those who promote singing at the liturgy for ego's sake has gone on for centuries. It's right there in black and white.

The battle was eventually reduced to white and black lists, but that became a futile way to deal with the issue because too much subjectivity enters into the subject. One has to go back to the very writings of Pope after Pope (and there are a lot of them to read right there in that book), to really know the heart and mind of the church concerning sacred music.

To our new friend. Keep in mind that no one on this forum has any ecclesiastical or legislative authority. Listen to the differing opinions - and that's exactly what they are, opinions - draw your own conclusions and use your best judgement as to what works or doesn't work in your specific situation. Someone who works in a setting where everything is done "by the book" can easily pontificate without understanding what you have to deal with. You know your context better than anyone else.

Hi, Kenneth--

Some of us do have some idea what Lacrimosa's music sounds like.

This isn't about an original song that he composed; it's a known song performed by a Christian pop artist, and a music video for it appears above.

The entire tradition of liturgy in the Catholic (and observant Anglican and Episcopal parishes) is built upon monastic life.

The tradition of monastic life - which would include seminaries - was that everyone sang at the Mass and Liturgy of the Hours. They might sing back and forth between groups on the psalm. They might sing the antiphon and then a smaller group would sing the verses.

The individual voice was heard only when the cantor introduced the chant, singing up to the *. This set the pitch and tempo.

Sure, maybe there were times that a single cantor might sing the verses, but as I recall myself, having spent two summers with the Benedictines in the choir stalls, I never saw that.

The center of attention was the eucharist. People dressed alike, even in the congregation. This all suppressed the individual and emphasized community.

A person might be heard singing chant alone at a parish daily Mass - this was quite common - but never on Sunday. This was for reasons of $. The stipend for a high mass was more than a low mass.

During weddings less than liturgical events - such as leaving flowers at Mary's altar - were accompanied by choir or a soloist singing the Ave Maria. The choir was preferable, but a soloist when that was not possible.

Novenas, which were heard almost nightly, involved singing hymns, also no solos.

Kenneth and Lacrimosa are both familiar with Novus Ordo parishes in which there is little interest in tradition, not so much a fault of the music directors but instead the leadership of the church in the US and other countries. We here may seem like dinosaurs to some but, as a certain movie has proved, there is interest in knowing about and understanding the past.

Kenneth, you were not "beat up", rather you hit the wall in trying to convince us that what you want to do is permissible. People will permit it, though they should not. It becomes a very simple issue. How much do you want to be like the musician that the church has encouraged for centuries - or do you want to go with the flow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bim7RtKXv90

>>Are there exceptions regarding a Papal Mass?

Yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMgUaeejl2Q

Indeed. I was just skimming a recording of the Mass this weekend, and even the commentators on EWTN commented how the music at that Mass wasn't really in line with the church's tradition in regards to music.

Francis doing guitar songs? Gasp! I need to lie down! This is too much for an old guy!

http://www.musicgiftofgod.blogspot.com/2012/09/midnight-in-garden-of-good-and-mediocre.html

melofluent

That is just opera superimposed on the liturgy

Really, I sympathize. I am glad I don't have to do anything like that.