Rock music at Mass
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    A few months ago, there was a video of a priest trying to 'prove' that rock music was appropriate at Mass, quoting people like Aristotle. Anybody got that URL?
  • I have a quote from then-Cardinal Ratzinger that states the exact opposite:

    "Three developments in recent music epitomize the problems that the Church has to face when she is considering liturgical music.

    First of all, there is the cultural universalization that the Church has to undertake if she wants to get beyond the boundaries of the European mind. This is the question of what inculturation should look like in the realm of sacred music if, on the one hand, the identity of Christianity is to be preserved and, on the other, its universality is to be expressed in local forms.

    Then there are two developments in music itself that have their origins primarily in the West but that for a long time have affected the whole of mankind in the world culture that is being formed. Modern so-called "classical" music has maneuvered itself, with some exceptions, into an elitist ghetto, which only specialists may enter -- and even they do so with what may sometimes be mixed feelings. The music of the masses has broken loose from this and treads a very different path.

    On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. "Rock", on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit's sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments."

    Thanked by 1teachermom24
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    I remember his arguments being dismantled by this forum, but cannot find the URL.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Oh, was it the priest at lifeteen? I remember as well.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    I think what you're looking for is here (with 190 comments).
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Rock Music at Mass:

    What part of "NO" don't you understand? Is it the "Nnn" or the "OoH"?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    As a boy, I used to be pretty good with rocks. Sometimes tossing one in the right direction can be a real problem solver. A well-placed rock is my solution to rock masses.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Confession: As the DRE at a former parish before I moved, I green-lit bringing Life Teen there. I wouldn't ever do it again. It's got good things going for it: Eucharist-centered and the learning material is orthodox overall. But this was like the salesman's foot in the door. Once in, it's like kudzu taking over everything. Now LT defenders will insist that you don't have to have an LT Mass, and that if the do get a Mass, you have to obey the priest about the kind of liturgy and music to be used. Well, that's very nice, but the fact is that unless the priest has head screwed on right and is actively on the alert for nonsense, there is enormous pressure to implement an LT Mass, and that Mass is highly-encouraged to be of the multi-media rock-concert sort. In other words, the standard operating procedure is to get away with as much as possible until the priest squeals.

    P.S. I say this as a rock musician who has played the heaviest of heavy-metals and punk rock with lyrics that would curl you hair, so it's not like I'm some fuddy-duddy prude.
  • Curious, isn't it: that those chic liturgists and teen-minders who tell us that Mozart is inappropriate for mass because it smacks (does it, really?) of opera and other 'bad' secular things, but are strangely silent about rock bands and pop-music at mass.
    Thanked by 2Gavin CHGiffen
  • the standard operating procedure is to get away with as much as possible until the priest squeals

    This is my modus operandi for getting more sacred music into our parish.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    If "Lifeteen" or "Youth" Masses are the source of rock music, maybe there needs to be another way of reaching youth. I've heard of YaTol http://www.yatol.net/. It seems orthodox and doesn't seem to be linked to a culture of rock/pop music, if that makes sense.
    Thanked by 1Jahaza
  • I just keeping thinking of the early '70s, when I remember watching Father glide majestically up the aisle in his usual way to the sounds of boompity-boompity-boom from the trashy drum set, and about eight guitarists strumming in unison. Seemed surreal even at age 12 or so.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Exactly. I used to watch Fr. bopping up to the front in his vestments, hear the wailing hippies and ex-nuns on their guitars and ask, "what's wrong with this picture?" The visual and auditory were a complete mismatch. Michael rowed the boat ashore.....
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Growing up the 70's and 80's I can tell you that these Masses did not bear much fruit.
  • If "Lifeteen" or "Youth" Masses are the source of rock music, maybe there needs to be another way of reaching youth.


    Yes, there does need to be another way to reach the youth, but we've got to abandon our notions of catering to a separate youth culture in order to reach them.

    We won't "reach the youth" through anything but the truth, goodness and beauty of the authentic teaching of our Holy Church; through the truth, goodness and beauty of Her sacred liturgy, supported by truly good and beautiful music. Our youth are not stupid and deserve better than dumbed-down teaching, liturgy and music. They deserve better than to be treated as a "separate church".

    I'm mom to three teenagers at present (and a 22yo son). I suppose since my children were reared on truly good music and are all accomplished musicians (as well as home schooled), they're able to see this for themselves. I know we are quite alone in our parish and I am truly grieved to see our young people being offered so little. I know what young people want and need but I have no voice in our parish.

    Thanked by 2donr benedictgal
  • Surprising that nobody brought this up yet.

    Such a good write-up.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • There was a recent article in Homiletic & Pastoral Review that is pertinent as well:

    http://www.hprweb.com/2012/08/on-music-and-the-priestly-life/

    Some years ago I published a similar piece in the same magazine:

    http://www.hprweb.com/2009/03/contemporary-music-in-church/
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I keep waiting for someone to copyright the obvious TridenTeen slogan.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,481
    >>TridenTeen

    I have never in my life desired to be a youth minister until this very moment.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    This is symptomatic of our modern focus-group, marketing type society.

    Instead of being One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic, we've got different versions of the same one true sacrifice to try and cater to teenagers, to families, to the elderly, to traditionalists, etc. We're fracturing our rite, in order to try and bring different people in

    Basically, the church is trying to change its appearance to suit everyone. But if you try to please everbody you end up pleasing nobody.

    Does it not make more sense to have a wide variety of music at mass, drawing from Latin and English traditions? Heck, my church even sings in German, French and Italian at different times!

    I used to sing for a Carols and Midnight Mass in a Parish where in the one night I would be expected to sing, Latin, English, German, Italian, Maltese, French, Spanish, Polish and Vietnamese.

    In my experience Latin has always had a greater unifying factor. I was in Avila last year when I met a group of young Catholic from South America. I speak no Spanish and they spoke very little English. We whiled away a couple of hours by singing every Latin Hymn and Chant we could find in our prayer books.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If you want my idea of praise and worship:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS87nk37sH0
    (words to the hymn below)
    http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/o/godofabe.htm
    Thanked by 2Ben benedictgal
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    But Teacher, you must realize that teens like to "hang-out" together. They like to be away from their parents (well I did anyway). Many parents don't bring their children/teens to Mass at all. If they find friends and they encourage one another to come, isn't that a good thing? I remember a Newman Centre when I was a graduate student. I was amazed at the hundreds of youth that came to Mass! The music wasn't great, but they encouraged one another to attend. I think that marrying a genre of music to the youth Mass is a problem and we can aim to improve this in our own parishes though it may be another uphill battle.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • Do we need "bad music" to attract young people to Mass? I don't believe so. I think that kind of music is an obstacle to faith and worship, not an aid.

    I don't give credence to notion that teens need to "hang-out" and join with a herd of other teens for Mass or anything else. Too much opportunity for trouble there. Of course they need friends but require a great deal of supervision and guidance through these difficult teen years, particularly given the toxic culture. I have not seen how the LifeTeen group at our parish differs much, at least not enough for me, from the culture around us, but actually offers greater opportunity for misleading our young people because it's sanctioned by the church.

    College is a different matter. My homeschooled-through-high school son had no trouble adjusting and making friends at his alma mater, Notre Dame. He was mature enough, strong enough in his Catholic faith and had enough desire to study that he avoided the dangerous distractions plentiful on that campus. And the Masses filled with good sacred music are well-attended--they don't rely on rock or pop music to attract the students.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I hope I do as good a job as you have raising my homeschooled children! Mine are a little behind yours, age wise . I may be pm'ing you for advice!
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Excellent links from E_A_Fulhorst and ProfKwasniewski I'm collecting them. Please keep them coming if anyone has others.