Five great motets - Weigel

Carl D

George Weigel's column this week is Five great motets, and highlights:
Sicut Cervus (Palestrina)
If Ye Love Me (Tallis)
Ave Verum (Mozart)
Ubi Caritas (Duruflé)
O Magnum Mysterium (Lauridsen)

Not a bad list, I'd say. Could we put up something quickly, maybe on Chant Café, which lets people listen to these wonderful examples of our heritage? We may have a whole bunch of people Googling these names.

Ben

Here's the links:

Ben

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mdmco61Htk
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RgaPTo4hE
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUWFVKJwBM
4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUWFVKJwBM
5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyDKVO1LjxQ

Mark P.

One could add to this list incessantly but I'd consider "Locus iste" of Bruckner as being more than worthy of this short list.

Carl D

Of course, but the point is that George Weigel has a huge international readership. We can help people who've never heard these.

Chris Garton-Zavesky

Curmudgeonly, I must ask: did he have to choose Laurisden's O Magnum, instead of its more famous, older cousin?

CHGiffen

There are more than one older and beautiful cousins of the O magnum mysterium. In addition to the Victoria (to which I assume you refer), there is the exquisite Palestrina and a charming Stadlmayr (quite easy), among others.

And, for my taste, the Byrd Ave verum corpus is much better than the Mozart, at least as sacred choral music for the liturgy, and the Byrd is free of classical era sentiment that colors the Mozart.

The Tallis, Durufle, and the Sicut cervus of Palestrina are all marvelous, each in its own way.

As for works not included:

Mark P, I couldn't agree more with you about the Bruckner Locus iste, but then I've been a Brucknerian all my life.

For me, the earlier Josquin Ave Maria ... Virgo Serena set the bar very, very high, as Colloquium XXII participants can surely attest.

And the short motet (not a Mass movement) Agnus Dei of Morley is a masterpiece of its era.

It is much more difficult to assess "greatness" for contemporary motets, simply because greatness is something that must withstand the test of time. Certainly the Lauridsen is famous and perhaps will be regarded as great some fifty or more years after its composition. So, too, are such modern works as the Barber Agnus Dei or the Biebl Ave Maria. All of these are famous – even very good – as well as others to varying degrees ... but when will they be truly great, and will other currently less-famous works emerge as truly great?

hartleymartin

I suppose there is no account for taste (on my part, that is). I find the Mozart Ave Verum Corpus a little operatic and frankly to be rather akin to soppy wedding music.

I like Byrd's one much better.

I am somewhat disappointed that Viadana's "Exultate Justi in Domino" doesn't seem to have made the short list. A very appropriate motet for jubilent feast days. But I would say that since that is my college's signature piece.

kevinf

While I love the Lauridsen, I really prefer the setting of Poulenc. But its difficulty makes it seldom heard.

Mark P.

Vinea mea electa of Poulenc is very poignant. I had the privilege of singing it under the direction of Howard Swan (now I'm really dating myself).

Mark P.

To render Mozart's Ave verum with strings and perform it with a real adagio (and a hushed piannisimo) is a revelation. It takes on a devotional quality that puts to shame "throw-away" performances.

ScottKChicago

The Poulenc Vinea mea is exquisite but has to be perfectly in tune and balanced.

Carl D

My, how conversation drifts. *!squirrel!*

canadash

I needed this thread. Thank you for all of your suggestions.

dad29

Not "Friede auf Erde?"

Not a complete list.

hartleymartin

One which never seems to get a mention is Franz Xaver Witt's "Ad Te Levavi" which is the offertory for the first Sunday of Advent and the 15th Sunday of Ordinary Time. It is not a difficult piece by any measure.

It is short, so is probably best used by using it as a harmonised antiphon, chanting the Psalm verse and Glory be, and repeating it.

CPDL Score available here:
http://www1.cpdl.org/wiki/images/sheet/witt-adt.pdf

hartleymartin

After listening to the recording of Mozart's Ave Verum Corpus I've changed my mind about it. Unfortunately, it is so hammed up for weddings and such that I had been left with a sour taste in my mouth. Now, I like it.

Charles in CenCA

I happen to be a Weigel afficianado, which is not always welcomed among sophisticates in our little corner of the world. I'm just happy he could rattle off five (four of which I consider parish level staples) motets by title and composer. As I've said relentlessly, cite specifics. (The one exception, only on a mean average of what parish quires can manage is, of course, the Lauridsen. It is worthy f'sure, but I think a parish quire could manage the Victoria with more ease.)
To take its place, just from Noel's first compendium-
ADORAMUS TE CHRISTE Pierluigi da P
BEATI QUORUM VIA Stanford (a stretch for some quires)
CANTATE DOMINO Hassler
CRUCIFIXUS Lotti
LOCUS ISTE Bruckner
MISERERE Allegri
MISERERE MEI Lotti
TANTUM ERGO Faure (not in FNJ), Allen

Mark P.

@Charles Do you mean the Tantum ergo with tenor or soprano solo (Opus 55)? http://deadwildroses.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/the-dwr-friday-classical-music-interlude-tantum-ergo-op-55-gabriel-faure/

Charles in CenCA

Yes, but some versions show a SSATB assignation of voices, and others an SATB, so I used CHG's (Gb) version.

Gavin

"I'm just happy he could rattle off five (four of which I consider parish level staples) motets by title and composer."

I'm by no means a fan of Weigel or his genre, but I agree with Charles that it's great to see someone as widely-read as him dealing with polyphony, even if we'd all disagree as to what the REAL greatest are.

mahrt

Let's face it, what is attractive about Lauridsen's motet is the general style; another of his motets would have sufficed as well.

My vote is for Byrd's Ave verum Corpus. It is true that the Mozart is too often hacked out. The indication at the top of the score is often ignored: "sotto voce." When sung that way, the piece takes on a quality of intense devotion.

CGM

A favorite for Palm Sunday:

Hosanna to the Son of David, Mueller

Liam

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLBG9-aQTE0

dad29

Well, then, how about Flor Peeters' Ave Maria? VERY do-able by a church choir. More a challenge, a bit more satisfying: the Bruckner Ave Maria.

francis

I agree. Laurisden needs to ride out its popularity wave. It truly doesn't belong on the list.

francis

Integralism.

https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/the-dangerous-and-false-dichotomies-of-george-weigel/

CHGiffen

A marvelous alternative to the Lauridsen O magnum mysterium is the 6-voice setting by Palestrina. Enclosed is the PDF score and also the recording I made several years ago with Zephyrus.

Jeffrey Quick

This sort of list is very limiting. Josquin could easily take all 5 slots. Though, alas, my favorite simple Josquin motet is unsuitable for the liturgy. http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=Josquin+tu+solus&v=EwvcvjQ7KO8&qsrc=472

CHGiffen

I have to agree with you, Jeffrey. Josquin produced so many excellent motets.

Felipe Gasper

Jeffrey, why do you think “Tu solus” is unsuitable for the liturgy?

melofluent

Long day... recuperating, off the top o' me head....under the influence of love

"Cantique de Jean Racine" Faure
"Dixit Maria" Hassler
"Miserere" Allegri
"Ave Verum Corpus" Victoria
"If ye love me/A new commandment" Tallis, in conjunction.

francis

Jeffrey:

You could do an abridged version if length is the issue. There are many opportunities for cadences that could easily bridge to another section.

Salieri

My list would definitely include:

Josquin: Ave Maria ... virgo serena
Viadana: Exultate Justi
Tallis: O nata lux
Ziprianus: Sicut cervus
Poulenc: Ave Verum

Hon. mention: Berkeley: Regina coeli

MBW

These are, perhaps, not the top five choral pieces ever written, but they are all first rate. They are lesser known works - in five distinct styles. I would appreciate knowing about similar pieces.

Nystedt: O crux (SATB with much divisi) long, achingly expressive
Wilberg: My Shepherd Will Supply My Need SATB kybd or harp and flute (some easy
divisi) simple and impressive
Distler: Fürwahr, ihr trug unsere Krankheit (SATB) genius!
Harris: Strengthen Ye the Weak Hands (T solo could be omitted, SATB with great organ
part)
Langlais: Jesu dulcis memoria (U, organ and flute) uses the chant hymn

melofluent

Distler: Fürwahr, ihr trug unsere Krankheit (SATB) genius!

Amen! When I was in the East Bay/Oakland Diocese we did this motet every other Good Friday (English translation.) Did the German for my grad recital in 87. The students reveled in it, along with Trond Kverno's "Ave Maris Stella."

matthewj

We did all 5 during the 2014/2015 season. The only one which won't be repeated in 2015/2016 is the Lauridsen. It's very popular, and was very well received here, but shouldn't be a steady diet.

Jeffrey Quick

why do you think “Tu solus” is unsuitable for the liturgy?

The "D'un autre amer" quote. That would disqualify from the EF right there, as being not-Latin. The Latin disqualifies it from the OF. Now. I'm very cool with the notion of taking a secular love song and recontextualizing it towards the Love of God. But I'm also aware that that sort of thing has been frowned on since Trent. It's not reconstructed as in a cantus firmus or parody Mass; it's right out there. If a choir started in on a contemporary love song in the middle of a motet at Mass, I'd probably find it disturbing, no matter how clever the setup. That said, I've sung the first half in the context of an OF Mass.

mahrt

Josquin's Tu solus qui facis mirabilia is a constant in our repertory. We sing only the first part, thus avoiding D'ung aultre amer. The first part alone is found as an elevation motet in a Mass of Josquin, and it makes a wonderful communion motet.

JulieColl

Many thanks for the Josquin piece! I just looked it up, and it is splendidly medieval. : )

May I humbly suggest Victoria's Ne timeas, Maria as a near-perfect example of polyphony? It seems similar to Palestrina's Sicut Cervus because of the way it flows so beautifully and because of its cohesion and balance. I'm not enough of a musicologist to explain its appeal and what makes it so assimilable (I think that's a word!) and natural, but all I know is that we went through it last night for the first time and took to it like ducks to water.

CHGiffen

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