Protestant organist in EF...advice
  • vincewoo1231
    Posts: 13
    Our schola (5-6 people) has been singing the Ordinary and Proper in the weekly EF in my parish for the past couple of months. Some parishioners suggest that we should get an organist to play in some parts of the Mass (processional, offertory, Communion, recessional, and POSSIBLY accompanying the Ordinary). But it's hard to find a good Catholic organist in town.
    We do have a organist (a Lutheran) who plays in the OF in my parish. But a friend of mine just told me that she has a Protestant organist in her parish and he just doesn't understand the Catholic traditions as much as she would like (eg he plays the Tantum ergo very fast and the solemnity is lost).
    So what do you guys think about having a Protestant organist play in a EF Mass, given that he has never attended one himself? If we do decide to hire him to play in the EF Mass, is there anything that I should tell him to pay attention to? or anything I should tell him NOT to do in a EF Mass?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The EF has difficult rubrics compared to the OF. I'd have someone who knows the rubrics well there to advise him. Then again, from what you describe it sounds like you only need him to play pieces for the offertory and communion and such. I doubt that he would know how to accompany the ordinary since most protestants (and most Catholics!) don't know how to read chant notation. I'd say figure out exactly what you need him for and then have someone tell him at what points in the Mass he needs to play.

    What not to do? I dunno, I guess just make sure he knows not to take communion!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,955
    I suspect that if the Protestant organist plays too fast, he doesn't know the music. Although I do know many Catholic churches that drag hymns and music in general, as opposed to the more lively tempo in many Protestant churches. I don't even try to accompany chant notation. I am a busy schoolteacher and church musician - yes, except for summer, I work seven days a week. Both the choir and I have an easier time if everything is in modern notation. I know, Guido stood on his left leg, with the moon over his right shoulder on holy days and sang neumes. :-) That doesn't mean you have to contend with ancient notation.
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    I'm also in the process of hiring a EF assistant organist. Our priest requested I hire a RC only organist. However if I got an applicant who
    used to play organ for Westminster Abbey, London, I'd certainly try to talk to priest into loosening up.
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    (Sorry, hit the post button too soon). IMHO, it really depends on the organist's experience and education. I believe a 'good' organist can
    learn the rubrics for the EF. There are a lot of RC organists who have never been to an EF Mass and would have a bit of difficulty getting
    the hang of it (perhaps). I'd love to be open to working with a good organist.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The difficulty is that the EF is only really doable for someone VERY knowledgable with it. Where a "high church" protestant can easily play for an OF Mass, since it's the same as the ecumenical minded church's liturgies, there's no equivalent (except the VERY highest Anglicans) for the Tridentine Mass. Even this past Sunday I went to one of the most liturgical Lutheran churches, with an order straight from the English Missal. It just didn't have the same ethos an organist would need to be familiar with to play for the EF.

    That said, an organist who's a good organist period doesn't have to simultaneously learn to play organ AND learn the EF Mass. So that's a benefit. Like I said, I think anyone unfamiliar with it needs guidance. Even playing for the OF, for my first year or so I needed people to nod to me when to do the Sanctus, Agnus, and such.
  • Lawrence
    Posts: 123
    The Extraordinary Form is more difficult than the Ordinary Form, but it doesn't exactly require some kind of Gnostic secret to master. I say hire the Protestant organist if he be the best candidate, and let him learn--even by osmosis, if necessary. If he's a good musician, it will pay off in the long run. The provincial attitude that we should only hire RC organists is myopic and may perhaps assume that the experience of playing for the liturgy can only benefit Catholics, a proposition which I would firmly resist. Ask the schola director in California who had a Jewish lady join--who later converted.
  • Lawrence
    Posts: 123
    I would add that the musicology teachers at most music conservatories know more about the Traditional Rite than many Catholics--even priest--do;-)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    My $.02 is that a Protestant organist will probably be aware that they don't know the Mass and that they need to learn what to do. A Catholic organist, who may or may not really know what to do in the OF in the first place, may not realize how much study they will have to do in order to learn the EF. Of course, all of these answers are speculation. You cannot put all organists into a "Catholic" or "Protestant" box. Why don't you keep your options open by not limiting your applications to Catholics organists (does posting an ad for an EF organist really flood your inbox that much?), and then choose the individual that most suits your needs (and not just the one with the best pedal technique).
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    "Some parishioners suggest that we should get an organist to play in some parts of the Mass (processional, offertory, Communion, recessional, and POSSIBLY accompanying the Ordinary). "

    At first I thought they were suggesting singing vernacular hymns, but then I reread it and see that there is a possibility of something great here, and quite possibly more possible with a non-Catholic organist. And organist who has studied the classical literature of the organ, as opposed to playing in a Catholic church as a virtual four-hymn machine, will have played Processionals, Offertories, Elevations, Communions and Sorties as part of their study...and if they have been with the right teachers, they will be able to improvise on the chants before and after you have sung them...

    That's what they did in France for hundreds of years. Organists did not play hymns, for hymns were not sung at Mass. But they played the organ, introduced the chants, and played after the chants. When you start studying the French literature you will find yourself up to your...organ shoes...in the names of Mass parts and chant. And you did not accompany chant...

    Unless you were playing the small Choir organ at the other end of the church with the choir near the altar. It was common to have two organs. One big in the organ gallery in the back (not a choir loft) and the small one up front.

    And they often alternated in playing between the two organs. Check out the Vierne Messe Solenne...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDehSF8mXK0

    This video will answer most questions about how the organ MAY be used at Mass.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    Frog Thank you for the you tube Vierne Messe Solenne... It was really wonderful. Great use of organ in alternation with choir. I really
    liked their Orbis factor. Good singers. I'm in the market for a small cabinet pipe for a 450 seat chapel/church (probably 6-7 rank). We've got great acoustics but right now not enough $$ for a big organ. This posting was inspiring!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Jan: you may look here http://www.organclearinghouse.com/ Or talk to a builder in your area, often they are in possession of old instruments.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1248330083031&ref=mf

    The Vierne Mass CD Set with Easter Propers discussed above has finally been released!
  • das
    Posts: 16
    All,

    There are Catholic organist with little, or no faith and there are Protestant organist with wonderful faith. Which would you want as an organist? Furthermore, there are organist with little, or no musicality, and those who are the epitome of musicianship. Which would you want as your organist? Finally, there are those who grow and learn all through life (i.e. will learn the rubrics of the EF), and those, of course, who cannot, will not, or simply muddle along. Which of these people are you?
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