Hook and Hastings Pipe Organ Available
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    See http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.474880325859069.123487.235801056433665&type=1
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Do you know how much it is going for? I just took a job where we need an organ right now. Thanks.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,309
    I think it's going for $10,000 -- sounds like an amazing price to me!
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Yes and No. I'm in the process of trying to locate a pipe organ for my church. Organs can SELL for $10,000, then cost $50,000 to pack up and move, and another $50,000 to revoice and install. Still a real deal, no doubt, but for a church with no money at all, $110,000 is insurmountable, even if it's the best deal ever.

    The organ clearing house had a large organ of something like 60 ranks listed as "free to a good home." When I talked with John Bishop, he told me that the cost of repairing it, transporting it, and reinstalling it would likely be around $400,000. Still a great deal, since that organ would cost a million dollars brand new - but still way out of our price range.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,309
    Whoa--those are some VERY big numbers! I think that a $110,000 project would be out of the question for just about any church these days...not all, but most.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Why is $110K out of the question? Catholic churches usually have over 1000 people - if each person gives $100, the project is paid for! More realistically, get 50 people to pledge $2000 over a four year term. If you don't have 50 people who support the music ministries, find another church to work at.

    My church of about 200 Sunday attendance is finishing up a $400K fund raising project for a new organ. It can be done!
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,309
    Just speaking for the Diocese in which I grew up and the parish in which I am employed, $110,000 is out of the question.

    We have a school that is badly in need of $100,000+ in tuck pointing. We have a parking lot that needs to be replaced at a cost of $140,000+. We just spent close to $100,000 to replace the roof. We need to repaint the church and replace the flooring--(hopefully with something beautiful and traditionally Catholic!

    Perhaps this is specific to the parish in which I am working and the area in which I was raised, but if I asked for $100,000+ for a musical project of any type, it would not happen. I would be surprised indeed if I'm alone in this. For the record, the church for which I work has fewer than 600 families.

    On a lighter note, MANY congratulations to you for putting together a $400,000 organ project! That's amazing and inspiring to someone like me! Maybe someday I'll be able to accomplish something similar :)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Not to pick fights, but I want to drive home the point that this IS in fact doable:

    "$110,000 is out of the question." and then in the same post... "We just spent close to $100,000 to replace the roof."

    There you go! The timing may NOT be right, and there are plenty of valid reasons why the organ may not be a priority, but the fact is that the money IS usually out there. In your case, I'd certainly say that the money should be spent on other projects. At my church, we also had to wait for the impact of a roof campaign to subside before beginning the organ capital campaign.

    However, I just want to make clear (saying it for the 5th time), that if people want it, the money is out there. It isn't easy; in fact it's a LOT of work. But it can be done.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,309
    Gavin,

    You may be right. Perhaps in 5-7 years, a project like this could be accomplished.

    Would you be willing to share some details about the work that you put in in order to make this project a reality at your church? As someone who has never led a campaign of nearly that size, I would be interested to know what is involved in a successful campaign like yours! Again, congratulations on your success in this regard. It can't have been easy.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,607
    Gavin,

    You are at an Episcopal church....that model fails when applied to the Catholic church.

    That's also why you are probably making about the same salary or even more playing for two services as the person on this list playing for 4 or even 5 Masses.

    You did apply for a Joseph G. Bradley Charitable Foundation grant that gives matching funds for restoration of Skinner Organs as well, right?

    And I am correct in supposing that there is no parochial school attached to the parish?

  • btodorovich
    Posts: 32
    I'd be interested in hearing about other folks who have successfully raised $100K+ for a pipe organ at their church. My parish is badly in need of an organ to replace an old Rodgers, and I'd love to hear about success stories/fundraising ideas/grants/etc...
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,607
    $100,000 for a pipe organ....is really not much money for a pipe organ, unfortunately.

    The only real way to find out what you need to spend is to bring in some qualified builders, which may require that you pay them out of your non-existant organ fund) just to evaluate the space, the acoustics, and the need expressed by you and the pastor.

    There are bargain instruments, but only someone like my friend, John Bishop at the Organ Clearing House who really knows organs, can guide you towards and away from instruments that are floating around out there. Local builders may not be happy that you are speaking with you because he and his crew can also take down the organ and bring it to you and set it up....but be forewarned, anyone in the organ business who begins to tell you who not to talk to or deal with is someone that you need to kick out the door.

    Many large organs sold today of all kinds are usually partially or entirely funded by a single donor. Memorial gifts, that sort of thing.

    Here is the Organ Clearing House number: 617-688-9290

    Remember. A roof and plumbing are both necessities. And people understand necessities.


  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    ^^^ (visualizes a floating organ...)
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,309
    Bubbles coming out of the organ pipes...
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Sorry for the delay (not posting on here for 12 hours is like a terrible mini-lent!), I'm getting packing done and may be on the road in a week!

    "You are at an Episcopal church....that model fails when applied to the Catholic church."

    How many models fail when applied to the Catholic church? Can't have sacral language, singing congregations, salaried musicians, fine hymns, paid choirs, choirs at all, vernacular chant, and now capital fund-raising. Because these things "aren't Catholic." "They're fine in high protestantism, but they'd never work in Catholic churches." This attitude resulted in the 1970 ICEL translation, guitarists, Glory & Praise, cantor-as-songleader, and either electric or aging organs. I don't think this attitude has worked out very well. And I don't think it has anything to support it.

    Blessed are they with low expectations, for they shall not be disappointed.


    "I would be interested to know what is involved in a successful campaign like yours!"

    The biggest work is maintaining excitement about the project. We also asked for three-year pledges, and have done multiple large and small fund raising projects. Grants were pursued with varying levels of success. The most important part is to just keep talking about it. I'm pretty sure (don't quote me on this) we raised around $100K on congregational pledges alone - so I know this much can be done!

    Noel would be right if he pointed out that, demographically, the Episcopal Church contains members who are accustomed to planned giving, and usually very well-off. This isn't the case at our church, however. It's mostly middle-class, with a few "rich" people. The BULK of our support has come from the middle-class members! I think the average pledge was around $700. All of this was in a bad economy for the nation, state, and region. Again, if we can do it, then a church of 1000+ in a good economy can get it done, too.

    It isn't easy. We're trying to scrap together the last $50K or so, and that's the hardest part. But there's a lot of imaginative ideas for funds out there, and the drive remains strong.


    I'm really not interested in tit-for-tat. If you think it can't be done, then don't bother, and enjoy your squeaky vacuum tube organ. I'm saying that a large capital campaign for music CAN be done, even if it seems like not all the factors are aligned at your parish. It's not right for every situation, but if you have the opportunity, look into it carefully.

    EDIT: I'd like to add that this project has been ENTIRELY outside of the parish budget. At the beginning, as a selling point, it was understood that not ONE CENT was to come from the budget, but entirely from independent funds. This commitment remains, and I believe it's the only way to get it done.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW lhouston58
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,960
    Add to all this the badly formed and poorly educated priests who have been leading us, the inmates who have been allowed to run the asylum, and the wholesale abdication of responsibility by many bishops, and it is easy to see why the scenario that Gavin outlined exists in the Catholic Church in the U.S. I am encouraged by the new generation of priests who seem to really get, for the most part, what liturgy is and is supposed to be. May they live long and prosper, become pastors and bishops, and straighten out the mess.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "become pastors and bishops"

    And popes!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,607
    Trying to apply what works in an Episcopal church to a Catholic church is like painting black stripes on a donkey and listing it in the sideshow as a Zedonk. Happens all the time until you run out of Lady Clairol.

    The Catholic parish that spends money on beautiful organs, a full time musician and more is a model that has nothing to do with the same appearing program in an Episcopal church. In the Episcopal church it is the result of trying to match an ideal, in the Catholic church it is the result of being willing to buck the ideal.

    You can paint the stripes on the donkey, but down deep it's still an A....
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