It seems strange to me that people design church to meet the desires of people who don't want to go to church. Shorter services, popular music, weak theology.

And then they wonder why people don't want to go to church, when that's the kind of attitude they feed.

Noel: I agree with your wider point, but not with the instance. Other things being equal, a lengthy homily is likely to be out of balance with the ritual context unless it is so well done that we don't notice the passage of time. Also, if a priest or deacon can't make his point in 3 minutes, he probably isn't too sure what it is.

Our masses are closely scheduled and emptying the parking lots for the next group is quite important. However, as a Byzantine accustomed to liturgies at least twice as long, I don't worry so much if the mass runs over a bit. Aside from the practical considerations such as parking, it is a matter of perspective as to what is too long.

Parking indeed is a major factor for this in many American parishes, and has been for decades (though it would have been even worse had the noon cutoff for Mass lived on into the 1960s). And minimalism (just focusing on satisfaction of preceptual obligations) has been a foundation for this far far longer than that.

Gavin,
I must disagree with the long v. short bad sermon. If the priest can't preach, then please make a simple exhortation on the liturgical day. Less than 5mins of that could be far more effective than most of the sermons I hear. (I do appreciate your thought about effort, but when the effort hurts....)

Practicality aside, the spiritual life needs the Mass, (Source and summit of the Spiritual life?) So due time should be taken to carry out the Sacred Actions, that being said as musicians, we should not prolong the Mass due to our efforts as the music should flow with the timing of the liturgy.

Peter

Whoever above said in effect that liturgical style was determined to appease those who really would prefer to be somewhere other than mass is spot on. These are the ones who always seem to be the beneficiaries of 'pastoral considerations'. These are the ones who must be coddled and entertained with pop music.

And parking? Well, perhaps if masses were scheduled two hours apart instead of an hour or an hour and a half, this would not be a problem... either for parking or for seemly liturgy.

Did anyone ever hear of timing football games?
Do enthusiasts ever worry about parking at sporting events?

If people have to time the masses for no other reason that to get out to be somewhere else, then why bother going at all? This bothers me to no end. Most people only go to mass once a week on Sundays. I can't help but wonder if the same people who say, bowl once a week, or play bunco once a week, time that. "Better hurry up and deal, as I have somewhere else to be". Just this morning I received an e-mail from a singer regarding my solicitation for singers for Confirmation mass on Saturday. His answer: "I will be there if something else doesn't come up". Don't bother.

Eh, I was making the sermon comment as a personal opinion. Everyone else can agree or disagree.

I was thinking, "I can count all the good short sermons I've heard on one hand." Then I tried. Couldn't remember any. I guess it's association from growing up Catholic and later in life attending protestant churches - I've heard a LOOOT of bad short sermons. And most of the long sermons I've heard have been good. Even most of the bad long sermons I've heard have been from otherwise good preachers, just having an "off" day.

To the point, some of the most holy services I've player for was probably at an historic black Anglo-Catholic church where I played organ. They did EVERYTHING deliberately, and with extreme attention to detail. And they didn't do anything until that moment was good and over. From the vesting of the priest to the prayers of the people, to the last note of the postlude. Services were regularly an hour and 30 minutes at a minimum, if not over two. It was an intensely spiritual experience, and I always looked forward to it. I've only ever found the same experience in an Antiochian Orthodox mission.

This is church for people who like church.

To give credit where it's due, a long sermon that shows some structure does show some effort. But most of the bad long sermons I hear seem like just rambling streams of semi-consciousness, so I suspect that they didn't get much prep.