Without listing all of them, they were the traditional Marian hymns, the praise hymns, such as "Holy, Holy, Holy," "Praise My Soul the King of Heaven," and "O God Our Help in Ages Past." Also, "Holy God..." and such. All familiar to the congregation. Over time, I have introduced some new hymns, but never any of the self-praising, unsingable hymns from the seventies.

Gavin, our pastor starting adding the St. Michael prayer after the dismissal several months ago. During Eastertide, we did the Regina caeli immediately after that, which I suppose was a "closing hymn," although not long enough for the procession to get out the door. Otherwise, the organ postlude begins immediately after the prayer to St. Michael. During Lent, we had a silent procession out at all Masses except on Laetare Sunday.

The announcement is simply "Hymn number ###" or "Please join in singing the _____ hymn found in the program." My predecessor didn't have announcements at all since everything was and is in the programs, but I figured (apparently wrongly) that it was worth a shot to encourage people to sing. But there have always been announcements at our school Masses because there are no programs and there are often last-minute changes. The organ intro is always long enough for people to turn to the correct page, if they haven't already done so from looking at the program or hymn board.

"- You say you don't program it because people leave or talk and don't sing. Yet people don't sing during the Communion hymn (and possibly leave during it too!), so why the insistence on that and not on a closing hymn?"
1. The Communion cantusis part of the Mass; at three out of our four weekend Masses, the Communion hymn takes the place of the proper. A closing/recessional hymn, on the other hand, isn't part of the Mass any more than the St. Michael prayer is part of the Mass.
2. People at least aren't talking during the Communion hymn.
3. We're usually over the one hour mark by the dismissal and a lot of people won't stay in church any longer. (Funny, I never learned that the Sunday obligation was restricted to one hour!)

Sometimes it seems we can do all the right things, and get different results from Sunday to Sunday. Congregations, too, seem to have both good and bad days. Some days they do sing better than others. Blame it on the weather. It's as good a reason as any. ;-)

I don't like announcing hymns. It would be so much more decorous to simply post the numbers on the hymn board and know that it's enough. And we do use a board. But making the announcement seems to make a difference. When I mention the missalette or the hymnal, people pick it up, so I've made that part of the formula:

"The recessional hymn is in the missalette [or 'in the red hymnal'] at number two-hundred-and-six, 'All Creatures of our God and King', number two-zero-six."

Who sings? The congregation. Simple common sense.

First "reform" I make in a Catholic church is to instruct the cantors not to sing into the mic on the hymns. The cantor singing the hymn is like the priest facing the congregation - single biggest liturgical (music) mistake of the past 50 years.

I suggest using a paintball gun during the entrance procession. Anyone with hands free processing not holding a hymnal and singing gets baptized in a slightly painful way.

They'll never forget to sing again.

@gavin, yes, it would seem like simple common sense, but when you come from a Catholic church background, you get used to the congregations not singing, thus employing cantors to unfortunately fill the void, where the congregation is usually at. Not all of us are as fortunate to be in that very gifted church where everyone just knows to sing. The occurrence that I was referring to, was also a funeral, where people typically don't sing anyways, as most are mourning. Which unfortunately necessitates the use of a cantor to sing the mass.

As frogman suggests, the simpler the music, the people sing. It's dead on. The harder we make it, whether hymns, propers, ordinaries, plays a big role in whether they sing. I have equally heard propers that were just all over the place, and the people don't sing, just the same with hymns, or tune diddys, or whatever. As musicians, we look at music differently than the congregation typically does. An example of music that is beautiful, and I am not knocking it, but would be nearly impossible to sing congregationally, unless it was taught to them well, would be the standard pentecost sequence that is in many of the hymnals. Unless you take the time to teach something like that to the people, they are not going to sing it. There is a principle that I have learned from a very good organ method for improvising and embellishing, it is called the DFA syndrom. Doubt - Fear - Abstinence. When the people are in doubt of their singing, sense that they will be off, or out of tune, off note, whatever, that leads to fear, which leads to abstinence in singing.

The harder the music is, the more difficult it will be for people to sing it. Take a hymn such as Immortal Invisible,,,, and look over the simplicity of the form being used. AABA. Because the first two parts are the same, and fourth, all that is changing up is the third musical section. Therefore because of it's simplicity, it is easy to pick it up. Hymns like that one, Come Now Almighty King, Holy Holy Holy, and on and on, are just examples of how easy it is to pick it up. Unfortunately because we are in the Catholic church, and the G&P music has perversed the church for so long,,,,and singing the next great OCP/WLP/GIA favorite, has become the norm, people can't sing hymns. Good reading would be "Why Johnny can't sing hymns" how the pop culture rewrote the hymnal.

We are unfortunately up in the front of the church. When they remodeled our church several years ago (I was not DM there at the time) they converted the balcony for additional seating, which in all honesty, they needed. The Spanish masses sometimes are in such bad overflow, they are packed in the balcony and around all the church in standing. We have 4 masses in Spanish. They also did not have funds to put in tile or marble, so I am stuck with the acoustics killer (carpet), even though the church is beautiful and could easily have marble floors with killer acoustics.

It all boiled down to money, which I understand. We aren't taught to tithe as the protestants are. We annouce them from the front of the church. There are no hymn/song boards. We do have a projection system, which I absolutely love. It gives me the ability to do hymns that were excluded or not in the OCP materials, and can use propers, antiphons. Projection systems aren't just for the P&W crews. There are some really fine hymns that were not in OCP/GIA materials, and it just makes life easier. We can't afford to have worship aids printed, although when I do have congregants ask me if I have the music to a particular hymn, proper, etc... I quickly print them a copy as we have a wireless printer, hidden, in our music area.

I have trained the cantors to not go on and on about happy morning this and that. Just simply, The processional hymn/chant/psalm is in your music issue/missalette, at # ____, (repeat that 2-3 times) for the older community. That's it. No welcome this, happy that. If we use the projection for any of the above music, I don't have them annouce anything. I just start playing.

1) Get rid of 'cantors' in any form.
2) Get rid of any and all singing through microphones, without exception.
If you're not willing to do these thingsimmediately and without reservation, you're not actually interested in improving congretational singing.

Maybe one way to say this: If the only way to prepare for Communion is by singing the hymn, then singing the hymn should prepare you for Communion.

If you're not willing to do these things immediately and without reservation, you're not actually interested in improving congretational singing.

DBP-
That's a pretty harsh generalized statement. I'm sure there are many forum members (myself included) who do NOT think that completely eliminating cantors and microphones is the ONLY way to improve congregational singing, so I'm not quite sure where you got the power to read our minds to determine whether or not we are "actually" interested in improving their singing.

If the hymn functions as part of the Communion devotion (as I maintain it can), then we ought to be V-E-R-Y careful in selecting it!

Part of the reason I've grown to appreciate the structure of the Vetus Ordo more than the Novus Ordo is because the question of "selection" is left completely to maybe one or two hymns, usually old singable standbys of no dubious content. Or, if you are capable, selection may graduate into a smidge of polyphony.

Propers are the normative option. They should be treated as such for the very reason that hymn selection --- too often from OCP --- is hugely difficult; hymn selection for communion exponentially more difficult. But, if you are going to use the "preferential option," you're the one purposefully shouldering this unneeded burden.

Gavin: Keeping in mind the Sacrifice of the Mass, what are some appropriate hymns for communion or offertory? (I'll back off from post-communion and exit hymn for now, because there's where the music may be allowed to start loosening its belt.)

I think we may be getting far from SJBC's original topic, and indeed I'm rarely interested in a "this hymn vs that hymn" discussion.

Fair call, and good principles. Still, if the topic is:

They aren't singing! How can I get them to sing?

Then the right answer should be:

Adore God first; let the chips fall where they may.

No, I don't mind. My hymn playing is solid and consistent. Go to http://www.lifecastpro.com/streamarchives/sjbc/ListFiles.asp

I'm playing for almost all Masses since (and including) Ash Wednesday, 2/22/12. Exceptions: the weekend of 3/10-11 and the 5/6 8:30 Mass. Please note that the recording mics are not the same as what feeds into the sound system, so the cantor is very prominent on the webcast archives.

Participation on the entrance antiphon and responsorial psalm generally are not a problem. Same for the ordinary. It would be unfair to say that the pastor is picking the repertoire. He wants the entrance antiphon in English, not a metrical paraphrase of it; I'm free to select any setting within those reasonable parameters. It is the hymns (offertory, communion, postcommunion) that are the problem as far as the congregational singing is concerned.

Choose a core of hymns and don't throw new stuff at the congregation continually. Play with sufficient registration to lead the singing. Have the cantors lead, not solo sing. Watch the volumes and lead, don't dominate.

Choose a core of hymns and don't throw new stuff at the congregation continually. Play with sufficient registration to lead the singing. Have the cantors lead, not solo sing. Watch the volumes and lead, don't dominate.

From one of the Charles' to another-
Simplify. But not in the manner you suggest above. Before I reduce this to an axiom I just caution that trying to construct an organizational flow chart THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE to anyone regarding all the aspects of how and who sings what at Mass is nigh impossible given the GIRM we hold in hand. That said, I believe the issue that is coming to some sort of a head is whether the tension between the processional Option One and Four will remain status quo. Just as important, no one (to my knowledge) has yet articulated a thesis for popular consumption (that unfortunately excludes Mahrt) of how to impart a general catechesis to any Catholic congregation of the face of the earth that explains the heirarchy of FACP "segments" of the Mass stated in Musicam Sacra that are principally assigned to the WHOLE assembly (Pater noster), those in option (practically everything), or those to the choir/schola (Propers), which is, in practice, still in play as far as we have SEP, Tietze, Pluth that we are advocating as being more in concert with orthopraxis than not.
Okay, back to hymns, which is limited to my first point, ie. Option 1 v. Option 4.
The objective of opting for Four cannot only be defended by a contrived convenience of using a core of hymns (what Proulx called the "classics", what I call the Usual Suspects) in my opinion. If the objective is to simply get "them" to sing, then all is lost because it would be no more beneficial to truly active participation to treat them to "America the Beautiful" so they feel "edified" by communal singing (like "Take me out to the ballgame...or...Happy Birthday) or some lowest denominator than it would be for them to ignore a bad schola chanting the Introit in Tagolog, English or Latin.
A connected DM would thoroughly examine the fourth option repertoire provided in the worship books chosen by the pastor primarily based upon text and then make the qualitative decision (just think of the hymn/song options for Ps. 23 out there) which abets either an allusion to the Propers or to the scriptures.
To illustrate directly: I've read any number of posts that ascribe tunes such as ABBOTS' LEIGH as congregation-unfriendly. Really? Well, then the tune much less a worthy text such as "God is Love" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. OTOH, the potency of "Church of God, Elect and Glorious" may be diminished if the DM is programming HYFRYDOL in its various incarnations every freaking week.
My point, and I do have one, is simple: choose the best option four text/tune at one's disposal, invite the congregation any darn way you want (announce, hymnboard, megaphone, hologram) and make sure your choir (optimal) or cantor (not a fan) renders it in the appropriate manner so that folks inclined can enjoin. If they choose not to, then hopefully they'll listen or read the text. If that fails, then is the DM to look in the mirror and go "Boo hoo, I've failed them."?

No, I don't mind. My hymn playing is solid and consistent. Go to http://www.lifecastpro.com/streamarchives/sjbc/ListFiles.asp

I'm playing for almost all Masses since (and including) Ash Wednesday, 2/22/12. Exceptions: the weekend of 3/10-11 and the 5/6 8:30 Mass. Please note that the recording mics are not the same as what feeds into the sound system, so the cantor is very prominent on the webcast archives.

Participation on the entrance antiphon and responsorial psalm generally are not a problem. Same for the ordinary. It would be unfair to say that the pastor is picking the repertoire. He wants the entrance antiphon in English, not a metrical paraphrase of it; I'm free to select any setting within those reasonable parameters. It is the hymns (offertory, communion, postcommunion) that are the problem as far as the congregational singing is concerned.

Thanks CSJB: I'll respond to anything I hear in the playing via PM on the forum. This isn't a hymn playing masterclass, after all! :)

If people are singing the entrance antiphon, then why not ditch the entrance hymn? Do a simple antiphon and alternate it with psalm verses (as prescribed in the gradual) and organ versets. You all have a fantastic new organ! I think when you do something interesting (yet recognizable) with the antiphon, it will really inspire people! I don't do a lot of interludes since it is not the tradition here, but when I do, it does tend to provoke hearty participation.

Also, the ordinary and responses are really (according to Vatican II and the USCCB, not necessarily liturgical tradition) what belongs to the assembly, so again, maybe they are just trying to say that they don't want as much singing as you are trying to give them...

Another difficulty will inevitably be encountered anytime we program hymns into a Catholic liturgy in an "average" parish (even a cathedral): what is a "hymn" that is acceptable, and what is a "song"? For example, I like LAUDA ANIMA a great deal with words from the psalms (i.e., "Praise, my soul"); however, at least in the mind of the documents, it is on the same level as pieces I like much less (i.e., Inwood's "Center of my life", also psalm text)...unless one of those psalms is a prescribed antiphon. I'm sure if you were playing for an Anglican Use place, they would favor the first for good reason, but the distinction is muddied in a normal parish since people have so many different expectations.

Now, back on track to this: What can I as the organist do, either personally or by directing the cantors, to encourage my congregation at least to make an effort to participate in the singing of offertory, Communion, and postcommunion hymns? This means picking up their hymnal or program, turning to the correct page, opening their mouth, and singing, rather than engaging in their private devotion, looking around, or texting.

To be frank, other than playing capably and having a good, solid introduction at the beginning of Mass (and hopefully a worship aid with reference to the hymnal), there is NOTHING you can do at the actual liturgy. It's not your job: we can't "lay preach", so to speak. You can 1) have an informational series of talks on the "why" of hymn-singing. This could get you a "faithful cadre" that could evangelize, so to speak. On the other hand, people may not care...and may not come! 2) Keep on that priest to catechize, as well as the deacons. 3) A "must" is to get kids and youth on your side. Even if you can't make them love the music you love, at least you can teach them that only well-prepared, well-executed singing is appropriate for the worship of God. Of course this depends on an individual musician's ability, but in general shoddy work (and substandard rep) isn't acceptable. The kids are key, though: if parents see the kids singing, they will be persuaded. So, make this liturgical/musical education part of the kids' religious formation, either at the parish school or in CCD.

Gavin, that actually was a choir Mass. It was unusual for other reasons as well: 1. the hymns were selected by someone at the diocese, not the cathedral; and 2. the congregation included a number of priests and religious from the diocese, so participation was MUCH more enthusiastic than at a normal Sunday evening Mass here.

Any perception of the quality of congregational singing from the webcast archives is misleading because what the recording mics pick up is much different from what one actually hears in the church. On that particular recording, you're mostly hearing the choir. I posted the link for examples of my hymn-playing, but not every Mass on there is with me at the organ. Check out one of the ones I mentioned above - other than the Chrism Mass - to get an idea of typical St. John's.

I have to agree there's nothing wrong with the organ playing. I was tickled though to hear the Byzantine intercessions sung in equal semibreves, as it is notated: we learned it as half, quarter-quarter whole. So, maybe have a word with the cantor about the diphthong "Lord, hee-yuh our prayer".

I suppose having trained voices is out of the question for pastoral/financial reasons? The caveat about the recording mike not reflecting the actual amplification aside, I wonder if the cantors are simply too prominent. Certainly they needn't repeat the Gradual refrain on the congregation's behalf: encourage them to sing their half of the dialogue and then beam expectantly. If you have the nerves to stick to this for a couple of weeks you'll be surprised at the result.

Ah,

I listened to a couple, actually: 1 15 12 830 Bishop Duca.asf and the more current Ascension choral service.

Print only the melody lines of the hymns to be sung during mass. Print the chant parts such as the preface dialogue. Use the ICEL Kyrie, which is a call-resposne type (Cantor/All) and it will encourage them to sing.

Keep a core group of your singers in the choir area, and then distribute a number of the others amongst the congregation on a rotating basis. It might be a case of monkey-see-monkey-do, but it works.

Use easy and familiar Hymn Tunes. On Marian feasts I use "Hail Queen of Heaven, the Ocean Star" (Stella), on most other Saint's days I use "By All Your Saints Still Striving" (Aurelia), and then a selection of other general hymns for ordinary time "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty", "Holy God We Praise Thy Name", "Hail Redeemer, King Divine".

Drake's Broughton has three common hymns set to it. "Firmly I Believe and Truly", "See us Lord about thine altar" and "Hear thy children gentlest mother". Space them well apart, and it is a handy one to have.