Do you have the ability to scatter "ringers" throughout the congregation? Can you get the Priest to sing?

This is the space, right?:

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If the priest sings hymns (as opposed to his part of the dialogues), it should be with his body microphone OFF....

When I read your post I realized something I've noticed at our parish too. The times the congregation are a singin' are the times that the "most" faithful are at mass. At our church only those who are truly faithful are at the stations, they are the ones that go to Holy Thursday mass and know the Latin hymns. Those are the people who sing. People don't sing at funerals, because most of those attending don't generally go to church. We have a Wednesday evening mass attended by about a hundred people and they sing with more vim and vigour than the 800 who attended Sunday mass. I think it is a lack of faith. At our church many go because they have to put in their time.

Something I'd like to do, if I had the bravery, is spot someone in the congregation, someone relatively devoted to the parish and the liturgy. Then go up to them after Mass, introduce myself, and ask, "why did you not sing the hymns today?"

I really wonder what the response would be. I wonder also if, after doing this 50 or so times, if 1) I'd have a significant data set from which to extrapolate information, and 2) the problem would solve itself....

He's discussed this by way of education from the pulpit twice this year.
Well, that's two more times than... nevermind.

But I can't count the times I've pleaded for liturgical catechesis to be folded into homilies (which, to me seems ridiculous, as I can't figure out how scriptural exegesis excludes worship, I'll come back to that in a moment) through subterfuge if necessary.
OTOH, I've had the same attitude as our beloved Ms. Ballou for years- "they" have been subjected to any number of changes and shock treatments over decades while we've been trying to simultaneously improve our "product" and fulfill our supportive role. So, if we've done our jobs well, and they still sit on the hands and zip the lips, amen.

Regarding liturgical catechesis and homilies- I was struck by Fr. Barron's take on worship in his magnificent "CATHOLICISM." He points out that human activity that has no benefit or "product" as a designated outcome, such as recreation or play, is in fact the most valuable in existential terms in which humans engage. He therefore deems worship of God to be the most illogical activity humans do, thus making it the most important thing we do. So, why homilists avoid "storytelling about worship" in favor of forensics about storytelling remains a profound mystery to me. Endeth the rant.

Thank you all for some good ideas! To answer a few questions-
1. We have no carpet and the cathedral acoustics are ideal for robust congregational singing.
2. The priest chants his parts of the Mass.
3. Usually the priest's mic is turned off for the hymns.
4. The people in the front actually seem to be some of the least likely to open their hymnals and participate.
5. The benefactors who paid for the new organ might have a heart attack if the organ were to be omitted. ;)

The pastor has approved the follow notice to go in our handouts for the next few weeks:

In recent weeks, conscious efforts have been made at the cathedral to encourage congregational singing. Hymns are a time for the whole congregation to sing, not to listen to the cantor or choir. Usually, the priest and cantor microphones are turned off except when they are supposed to be heard solo. The printed Mass programs are prepared and distributed each week to facilitate the vocal participation of the congregation. Hymn numbers are included in the program, posted on the hymn boards, and announced by the cantor or organist.

Please open your hymnal and join in singing! Like the spoken prayers and responses, the hymns and sung responses are an important element in the active participation of the faithful in the sacred liturgy. Singing is a more solemn form of prayer, and the Mass is meant to be sung, not spoken. Do not be timid about letting your voice be heard! Participate vocally and encourage your family to do likewise. Our cathedral should become a place where everyone feels welcome to sing enthusiastically and thus fully worship our Lord with heart, mind, and voice.

This thread grabbed me immediately because the parish where I work seems so lifeless when it comes to congregational singing (and choral singing...we have extremely few resources as far as singers in the "choir" right now). On Sunday I was blessed to attend a newly-ordained priest's first Mass and was struck at the simple joy of all the people in pews around me actually singing! The Church and crowd were smaller than here and between a nicely full organ, decently-strong, skilled small choir, and vocally participating congregation of a couple hundred, it was a joyous, powerful sound filling the place. I came back and said to my pastor: "I want the people here to experience, to taste that!" I don't think they ever have, and how to "wake them up" is, as others have already elaborated, quite the mystery and challenge...

njgw, those are some really important points about the role of cantor! One thing that was distasteful about the afore-mentioned first Mass was an almost "in-your-face" cantor that was completely unneeded for most of the Mass. :(

Liam, Gather Comprehensive is what's in the pews. For approximately the last three years, only the more traditional (i.e., organ-friendly) hymns have been used except at school Masses. A mixture of traditional and more contemporary/folk hymnody was used previously. We have also included hymn inserts in the program, but less frequently now than under my predecessor. He liked to put everything in the program, even if it was something already in our hymnal. In all seriousness, I believe that picking up a hymnal and opening it to the right page to sing has a beneficial psychological effect on worshipers. And nearly all the hymns we use from Gather are things they've been singing for years.

Not being a Catholic from birth I begin with the assumption that it's good for the congregation to sing, and my understanding of that (even after all these years) is that it is good for them to sing louder than Catholics do. The problem is, that makes me a busybody - a convert busybody with experience and love of excellent (non-Catholic) congregational song, rather than a late liturgical movement busybody, but a busybody nonetheless. We can't manufacture a tradition of congregational song; it has to be the outcome of cultural development, as it is in the Ordinariate. The liturgical movement aimed to encourage such development within the context of the Mass and Catholic culture as received. There is some evidence that it was beginning to make headway, tho' this is the kind of thing whose effect is measured over centuries; but the sudden introduction of a new form of the Mass and the foment of novel ideas about participation represented a break with that development. In the circumstances, one can hardly blame congregations for their passive resistance to the latest enthusiasms, no matter our conviction of their authenticity.

For the sake of clarification...are they just not singing the hymns? Or are they not singing anything at all?

If it's just the hymns that you are having a participation issue with...here's a radical thought...take them out, and have your choirs and scholas chant the Propers instead. If they aren't going to sing anyway, you might as well go back to first choice for music.

Why Yes, I am in the middle of reading Mr. Tucker's book...why do you ask?

My suggestion is to remove them entirely. Hymns sung before, during or after Mass are not a requirement, they are in fact a substitution for chanted propers. If something else is needed because communion lines are long then polyphony will serve the purpose admirably.

This goes back to my feeling that congregations have a tendency to use "music for entertainment" during the mass. I have the same problem. We have a very small church (seats 300) and the choir/organ is almost on the altar, so everybody not only hears us, but also sees us. As a result, except for those faithful who are very pious all the time, the faithful like to sit back and listen to the music. If I sing propers, they get upset with me. If I use hymns, they won't sing, even very familiar hymns. I'm also at a loss as to how to encourage singing. But, you can't force it. If it's not coming from the heart, nothing we do as musicians and/or DM's is going to change anything.

There are some good suggestions here, but there are also some comments that come across as a bit out of touch. Are there music directors out there who actually have the resources to supplement chanted propers with polyphony at four Masses every weekend? More power to them! But we're not in a position to do that here. We have a choir at one Mass only, with no possibility for balanced choirs at the other three Masses. We do not have the resources in our office at present to produce multiple printed programs for the various Masses, so we have to be content with a single program for all four Masses and work within those parameters.

I really wonder if we are not giving people enough credit. And I also think a lot of musicians tend to make a "Catholic" hymn singing issue out of what is, in reality, an "American Catholic" issue. I have been to Masses in a number of Catholic churches overseas where the congregational singing was very enthusiastic. I find it discouraging that instead of working to encourage that kind of singing in the United States, so many musicians choose to throw in the towel and resort to more "simple" music that is bland and, ultimately, uninspiring.

Reflecting on my own experiences from sitting in the congregation, I'm reconsidering my organ registrations. When practically nobody is singing downstairs, even in a packed church, organ with foundations 8' & 4' mf DOES come across as too loud—especially so when there's an amplified cantor competing with the organ. I've done away with the amplified cantor here, but the folks downstairs aren't embarrassed enough about their silence to start singing. I hope the notice in our Mass programs along with slightly lighter organ registrations will do the trick after a few weeks. I'll report back soon.

I think hearty congregational singing depends on the leadership of the current pastor, or a past pastor who made singing at Mass a priority. I've been fortunate enough to be at a couple of places where current and past pastors are/were very vocal about this. Some good formation happened along the way in these places. Singing is part of their DNA.

Cantors play their role through VISIBLE gestures that are inviting, creating a nice sense of inhalation to engage the congregation. If a hymn is new, the cantor can be more assertive. When the hymn is well-known, the cantor is instructed to back off.

Organ registrations need to vary. The opening and closings hymns are a little bit more muscular in registrations, particularly in the last verse, than a hymn at the Prep. of the Gifts, for example. I tend to use upperwork and reeds from enclosed divisions. I might use the Gt. mixture at the end of the last verse. I am not afraid to ride the box! The goal is to not create fatigue, so remember that using high-pitched mixtures in every verse will not win you many friends. I tend to like the English full-swell effect coupled to Great Foundations. That "rage in the cage" with the box shut makes for some exciting hymn singing. The sound is intense, but not overwhelming.

Creative hymn playing is also important-creative registrations, of course, but also soloing the melody, alternate harmonizations, interesting introductions, etc.

Keep the repertoire stable, too.

I come back to the pastor, though. We are a pretty middle-of-the-road suburban Midwest parish. The music program has a pretty checkered past, but has improved over the past decade-slowly, but particular success has been made in replacing much of the G&P and Gather repertoire with good, sturdy, hymnody. I have been working to greatly improve the choral situation and we have begun using propers at Mass. I have to say that the singing, overall, is very good here. We also have good cantors and the instrument is colorful and exciting. This all helps. We recently taught THAXTED, with much success. We even had someone just request it for a funeral! Anyway, my point is that the pastor was ordained in the 60's. His tastes were (and probably still are) geared to a more contemporary repertoire. He has been wonderfully supportive, though, of the changes that are taking place and is always engaged with what is going on. He also enjoys singing, which helps. His mic can be a little loud at times, but he is always thoroughly prepared, even with new hymns. Nothing is worse than a priest with a closed hymnal (or no hymnal at all) while the congregation is singing. It does not set a good example.

I wish you luck in all this. Don't get discouraged. Hang in there!

The OP said that the norm there is that microphones are only used for solo singing.

I truly believe that until we start singing with children in schools or at home, congregational singing will be poor. Singing is not "normal" for people, so they don't do it.

My two cents.

At my parish, I've noticed (and people have been commenting) that "people aren't singing as much". But I got to thinking. By what standards are they "not" singing? Dialogues between priest and people? Sung fully, by almost everyone, without accompaniment. Ordinary? Again, sung by most everyone, accompanied with the organ (unless it's the Jubilate Deo Mass. In that case the Kyrie is sung well, the Gloria is OK, but a little weak, the Sanctus may or may not be sung well - more on that below, and the Agnus Dei is sung well, all unaccompanied). The "Our Father" is sung so fully that organ isn't even needed. The Alleluia and Gospel verse (or "Praise to You" in Lent) is sung about as well as the Latin Sanctus, again, accompanied. At this point we don't have a resource in the pews with the melody of the responsorial psalm available, although we're working on that, so the psalm is not typically sung.

In other words, the people are actually singing what the Church expects them to sing (according to Musicam sacram), that is, the dialogues and the Ordinary.

So, what aren't the people singing as much? The hymns. And, I believe there's a reason for this, that goes along with why the Sanctus and Gloria aren't sung well in Latin.

Several years ago, my immediate predecessor DM and the Pastor made a conscious decision to switch hymnal/pew resources to eliminate songs like "Be Not Afraid", "On Eagle's Wings", "Let There Be Peace On Earth", and the like, from the congregation's repertoire. The new hymnal doesn't have these songs in it, and we haven't sung them for several years now.

I think there's an "anthropological/liturgical" link here. Because chant and polyphony were removed and replaced with "folk music" in the 70's, the older generation either stopped singing altogether, or were just young enough to join in the "folk" or "guitar" groups and learn to sing these "Peter, Paul and Mary"-styled songs, which were then taught to the next generation. The younger generation jettisoned the "folk" style and started singing the stuff I mentioned earlier and the older folk stopped singing, and the younger generation were raised on this stuff. Now that generation has stopped singing as well, and the current young generation has no model to pattern their participation from, which is also why some of the Latin settings of the Ordinary aren't sung well - not enough exposure.

The one time I notice the singing is truly amazing is when we do hymns at devotional services, especially May Procession and Forty Hours devotions. These old devotional hymns are sung to rattle the rafters, and every generation seems to join in.

So, the problem is not hymn singing per se, or anything you may or may not be doing. However, I think there is great logic in the idea of going back to what Musicam sacram instructed - people sing the dialogues, Ordinary and responsorial psalm, priest (or deacon) sings the Proper texts assigned to him, cantor/schola chants the processional Propers. Everyone participating in the Mass according to their role in the liturgy. THAT's what the council Fathers meant when they said they envisioned the Mass as always sung . . . not everyone singing everything (or just anything) all the time, just for the sake of singing.

"They seem simply not to bother."

Indeed, and this apathy and inertia is deadly for the church. Our culture and society in general has reduced everything to a spectator activity. Prayers and responses at Mass require engagement, that is, for there to be full and active participation, there must be a conscious assent to enter into the prayer. This is why the documents state clearly, over and over again, that interior participation (or perhaps a better term would be interior disposition) is equally important as exterior participation. If one does not take seriously the need to be properly disposed to participate in the Mass (and indeed to receive the Blessed Sacrament), then one will not likely take the externals seriously either.

Unfortunately, and I'm sure some might bristle at this notion, I do think that there is an element of the priest's ars celebrandi (not personality) that comes into play here. If a priest behaves as if he doesn't care whether or not people participate (properly, and according to their role in the liturgy, i.e., the dialogues, responses and Ordinary texts), then the people will not likely do so. On the other hand, if the priest's ars celebrandi is reverent and fully "engaged", the people will sense this and be driven by a desire to join their prayers to his in the action of Christ's sacrifice on the altar.

Ain't it funny (he said with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek) that the fruits of the reform, as manifest at the hands of the progressives, have had the opposite effect. They've made the priest more like the people, rather than the priest more like a priest, and the people more like an audience with the Mass a vehicle of entertainment rather than an action of Christ through His Church. Time was when the Mass happened whether or not you were there. Now, every Mass is viewed as an "occasion" when the people "define" who they are, and redefine who God is in the process.

A lot of great suggestions already listed. One thing I'd like to say overall is that nobody should force Catholics to sing. While it's a great thing for them to do, some people grow holier by listening and not singing. At my 8:00am Mass, all of the people sing, and I don't even need a cantor. At my 9:30am Mass, however, you practically have to open their hymnals for them in order to get them to sing anything. This is fine. Instead of singing hymns, chant the propers (without the people)! Also, keep your hymn selection limited. Even if it means singing Grosser Gott a couple times a month, if you keep playing the same hymns, eventually, people will gain familiarity with them, and might just chime in.

Also, as other have already, I also would really encourage you not to decrease the organ volume for hymnody. The kinds of hymns we use nowadays come from Protestant traditions, where the organ was the leader and thus, if we are going to do hymnody, we need to do it right. The organ must be loud enough to give the people the confidence to sing. When the organ is soft, people wont sing. Of course, American Catholics typically are going to complain about the organ being too loud, but this is because they are used to 40 years of piano and acoustic guitar, and, in general, lack taste. What I've been doing at my parish is giving little talks about music in the liturgy. This has, at least, appeased many of the parishioners. It's going to take some getting used to, but I believe that (protestant) hymn-singing, and sufficient organ support, are inseparable.

There is no goal for more hymn singing in the liturgy here. The goal is for better hymn singing—that is, for the congregation at least to make an effort to participate in what's happening. Most people aren't picking up their hymnals when it's time to sing, despite having printed programs, hymn boards, and announcements. When they've been accustomed to listening to an amplified cantor, it's no wonder.

Why add prelude and recessional hymns, as Mr. Ostrowski suggests, when people aren't even singing the hymn after Communion, which is expressly mentioned in the GIRM? I notice that his suggestions assume the presence of a choir, but most of us don't have the resources to have even a small schola at all weekend Masses. But we do have a congregation at all Masses. Why not make use of them? As far as I can tell, "option 4" (another suitable liturgical chant) is always a legitimate option.

I know I'm decidedly in the minority in this forum, but I don't see what's wrong with singing a variety of theologically and musically solid hymns rather than simple psalm-tone propers. Is a psalm-tone proper in the vernacular sung by an amplified soloist (and the cantor absolutely must be amplified to be understood in our church) a mark of "'authentic' Catholic liturgical celebration"? Until I have a schola at all Masses with music, I'll take congregational singing, thank you.

So, to get back to my initial post and request: What can I as a music director and organist do to get people to open their hymnals and actually make an effort to sing three hymns each week? I'm thinking an electronic hymn board may be the next step for us here.

Thanks, Gavin. A few things:
-As a rule, we have only two hymns at the choir Mass.
-We use Richard Rice's entrance antiphons, which are repeated by the congregation, so it's not a cantor solo the whole time. I would rather use the Tietze hymn introits, but the antiphons are what the pastor wants.
-The congregation sings the Gloria, even at the choir Mass, so there is one part of the Mass with substantial singing before the offertory.
-Usually, at least two stanzas have been sung before the congregation starts going to Communion. (Plus there's no rule against carrying your hymnal in the Communion procession, especially if you're going to receive on the tongue.)
-We don't do closing hymns. People start leaving and talking as soon as the priest is out the door, so it's really pointless here to attempt singing.

We had a prominent notice on the front of the Mass program last week, and announcements have been incorporated into the homily last weekend and this weekend, by two different priest. I have reduced my organ registrations. I'm programming familiar hymns ("Come, Holy Ghost" and "Be Joyful Mary" were two of them today). No improvement. What else to do? Not start playing and re-announce the hymns until I see people holding their books open? They're certainly not singing four stanzas by heart!

>"...reduced my organ registrations."

This rarely fails to result in a pianissimo contest. My somewhat paradoxical experience is that when I wish to hear the congregation better in balance with the organ I had better pull more stops. Even with a good choir in front, the people in the back pews don't want to feel too naked and will sing out only when there's a healthy amount of sound to blend in with; once there's a critical mass of their neighbors singing ("Where you there", anyone?) it's safe to back off.

> "We don't do closing hymns. People start leaving and talking as soon as the priest is out the door, so it's really pointless here to attempt singing."

Oy ... there are far more serious issues here than liturgical music.

> "I really wonder if we are not giving people enough credit. And I also think a lot of musicians tend to make a 'Catholic' hymn singing issue out of what is, in reality, an 'American Catholic' issue. I have been to Masses in a number of Catholic churches overseas where the congregational singing was very enthusiastic."

There's this little book, maybe you've heard of it. Forget the title, but it's about why Catholics can't sing.

SJBC, you're clearly on to some good practices. Kudos for starting the Communion hymn early and asking the congregation to join in the Introit!

I recently watched a documentary on public relations, so that's where my mind has been the past few weeks. I'd suggest some good ol' market research on it. Talk to people; be blunt: why do you not sing? There are different reasons for every parish. It occurs to me now, if you have a sub or an assistant, take a Sunday off and go sit out in the congregation. Observe people throughout the Mass. Talk to people. If someone isn't singing, hand them a hymnal and smile - how do they react?

Ask yourself, what moments are best and worst? At which Masses? You've done a bit of that, recognizing the Gloria as well-received. What is different about that than, say, the Sanctus?

I don't want to do a point-by-point, but two things strike me about the closing hymn (of which I am a strong proponent) :

- You say you don't program it because people leave or talk and don't sing. Yet people don't sing during the Communion hymn (and possibly leave during it too!), so why the insistence on that and not on a closing hymn?

- If you have your priest's support, an excellent (and better) practice is for the altar party to begin to process, and then stand "in formation" before the altar until the last verse of the hymn begins. Only then will they process out, singing the final verse.

I don't know that anything will be solved by violating principles of decorum, though I personally wait about 5 seconds before beginning any hymn, to give the elderly extra time to open hymnals. I suppose it could be of benefit for people here to see what sort of announcement you gave.

This kind of thing just really has my sympathy. I'm not sure of any worse feeling than starting a hymn and having nothing happen.