Parish Book of Chant, 2nd edition
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    A revised and expanded 2nd edition of PBC will probably be released this year. Here is the current draft copy in PDF. Please review and comment, either here or to my email (canticnov@aol.com), regarding omissions or errors you find in the PDF, or have noted while using the current edition. Please note:

    - Translation of the Mass for the Ordinary Form uses the new translation; let me know what I missed
    - Items needing confirmation and/or reconsideration are highlighted; there are probably others
    - Index on p. 274 needs updating, I think, so ignore it
    - As far as the chant goes, this is an exclusively Latin resource, and will remain so as long as it's my responsibility

    Thanks for your help.

    Richard Rice
    ParishBookOfChant_2ndEd_DRAFT_Nov2011_pt2.pdf
    910K
    ParishBookOfChant_2ndEd_DRAFT_Nov2011_pt1.pdf
    954K
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Whoa!
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    One of the things that caught my eye was the spelling and accentuation of the Latin:

    - PBC uses "j" where the modern chant books, as well as the 2002 Missale Romanum, have a "i": Iesus, iustum, iudicare, cuius, ioannem, maiestatis, etc.
    - Some words have accents where there's no need to, others are missing an accent. Examples: pleni (in the Sanctus) shouldn't have an accent, while Kyrie and exaudire (both p. 12) should have one. In general, two syllable words don't get accented because then the first syllable is always stressed. Words of three or more syllables always get an accent to indicate the stressed syllable.

    In didn't do an extensive search, it's just something that I noticed in general.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    This looks really great. A few miscellaneous comments on the first part:

    1. It is strange that you present Penitential Rite B (a species virtually extinct in the wild) as the norm, with the Confiteor labeled as an "Alternative[]," and no mention at all of form C.

    2. Is there any reason the stress accents are omitted from the Words of Consecration?

    3. The inclusion of the other three Eucharistic Prayers is an improvement, but a still further improvement would be to supply the Latin as well.

    4. On p. 103, it is not really accurate to say that the Benedicamus Domino was the dismissal in Lent and Advent "according to the older custom." "Custom" had nothing to do with it; that's what the liturgical books required.

    And one bonus comment on the second part:

    5. It would be nice to see the Litany of Loreto in here.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Couple of comments:

    In the first edition, I know the canon was translated literally. I assume in this one, the english translation of the canon is from the new translation? I just don't know it well enough to be able to tell just by looking.

    Also agree with mark about the penetential rite oddities.

    Same goes for the rest of the english translations. The translations are from the new missal, right? (For the ordinary form only, of course)

    I second the motion to have english-latin side by side for all the eucharistic prayers.

    The ad libitum communion chants are a very nice addition.

    P. 259: "† This is the monastic version; see the Liber usualis for the secular version." (Compline antiphon) Why can't the secular version be included in the PBC?

    Litany of the Saints: Can a base set of saints and intentions be put in here, making it ready to use without going to other resources? Of course, in different areas or ceremonies, you may want to add and/or remove some saints or intentions, but right now, it's not really usable without other resources. Would it be possible to add intentions suitable for a "general use" litany (if that makes sense)?
  • a1437053a1437053
    Posts: 198
    The changes to the Missa Pro Defunctis are especially well-set!

    Off-topic: What parts of what is set are exclusive to the Extraordinary Form, and what components are available to the Ordinary Form?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Very nice, as in the first edition!

    Just one note:

    P. 6, 20: The draft presents "World without end" as the translation of "Per omnia saecula saeculorum". It's a charming archaism, and maybe fine in some contexts (Anglican use?), but I think it's not ideal here in the Ordinary Form context, since it's neither the approved ICEL/CDWDS translation nor a correct literal rendering ("unto all ages of ages"). For the EF context (p. 35,40, 46), it seems more appropriate, as it would be consistent with the English texts in older hand missals.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    This might be off-the-wall, but I'd like a bit more info on provenance/authorship given for the chants, especially if the chant is a new composition or obscurely sourced. So maybe just up in the right corner of the chant: author or source, maybe the century of composition (like in the Gr Missal).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    That's a nice idea, but if adding that information would result in a cascade of layout changes, it might be best to put the info in an index.
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    @chonak: Agreed. Just looking for the smallest bit of info up there. Most chants wouldn't need it at all, but if Rice composed it, "R. Rice" in small print at the right hand corner of the chant would be nice. The century-of-composition note isn't necessary either, but is pretty cool, especially for chant beginners to see that what they're singing is sometimes 1000+ years old.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    "but if Rice composed it, "R. Rice" in small print at the right hand corner of the chant would be nice."

    There's only the one, which nobody has publicly identified yet. Round two...
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    "P. 259: "† This is the monastic version; see the Liber usualis for the secular version." (Compline antiphon) Why can't the secular version be included in the PBC?"

    Simply put, I like the monastic version better, and find the recitation on "ti" more characteristic of Mode 3.

    This is not, after all, a resource for the Divine Office, either monastic or secular. On the other hand, Liber cantualis has a complete Compline. But then again, it uses the same version of "Salva nos" as I do. Would anyone (but Ben) have noticed, were the footnote not there? So maybe less information is better, after all, for a resource like this.
  • bcb
    Posts: 36
    Not an editing idea, but any chance that the new PBC could have a ribbon or two? Flipping between the mass setting and the order of mass would be much easier that way.

    And thank you so much for this wonderful resource!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I think 2 or 3 ribbons would be a great idea!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    It's possible. Adds about 50 cents to the price of the book, if you can believe it.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    Nice to see Mass II included. Twice in the last few weeks (we're slow learners), we've gone to the PBC for Mass II and then remembered/found that it's not there and pulled out the Libers.

    In a quick glance through, it seems that my pet peeve with the book has been removed, hymns w/ melody on one page and verses across the page turn.

    Copy editing point for the Magnificat, it says 8g simple, but I doesn't specify that the solemn is 8g.
  • organista20
    Posts: 12
    This is excelent!!!
    In the "Nunc dimittis" it would be nice the entire set of the verses as in the 2 settings of the "Magnificat". A great help for beginners.
    More saints and intentions in the Letany of Saints and in the Christus vincit.
    Agree whit ribbons!!!

    Have you thought about a Spanish edition of PBC? Many hispans and many people out the USA are aware of your work.
    Have you thought about a Spanish version of the Colloquium workshop? Many people out the USA would be interested (I´m the first!)

    SDG
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    A further comment: we often use the PBC for ordinaries because the size of the nuemes is larger than the Liber.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    ...it is not really accurate to say that the Benedicamus Domino was the dismissal in Lent and Advent "according to the older custom."

    The "Benedicamus" was dropped in the 1962 Mass, with very few exceptions. It is true that it is 'the older tradition.' But it was deleted a long time ago.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Please-
    Spanish edition a must at some point soon
    ribbons- at least 2

    and thank you-
    yeah mass ii!

    I love pbc and spread the word every chance I get.
    Thanks for all the work- may God reward you!!!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,818
    o goody goody goody!!!!

    Ben and MCW ... It's easy to make ribbons... we did for our first edition. will post a pic if i remember.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    I'm not sure if this would work with the PBC b/c the binding might be too small/tight, but I've seen people make ribbons for other books...
    Take a long, skinny, thin strip of cardboard, and tie/glue ribbons on to the top of it, then stick it in the spine/binding and you have ribbons sticking out the top!
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Francis- please do post a pic when possible. I could use ribbons in several books...
  • merum99@msn.com
    Posts: 4
    Would be great to have the Simple Tone for the Te Deum (=Tonus recentior in the Liber Hymnarius).
    (We can use the Solemn Tone, but we get many more people singing along when we use the Simple Tone.)
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    "Francis- please do post a pic when possible. I could use ribbons in several books..."

    But let's move ribbon-making to a new post, please ;)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I second the motion for the Te Deum simple tone
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    The changes are wonderful. The main ones that will make my EF schola's life much easier are:

    1. All 18 Ordinaries Mass settings and 6 Credos
    2. Ad lib. Ordinary parts (including my favorite, Kyrie Clemens Rector)
    3. All the Sequences
    4. The Requiem Mass (Not the propers, but having the text, ordinary setting, and sequence there is s big help)
    5. Best of all, and these are all fantastic, is that the hymns with multiple verses/stanzas have music over each verse. No more page flipping and trying to point the verses to figure out which syllable gets the climacus.

    Thanks again, RR!!!!!
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    RR/JT/AOZ-
    Are there any plans to have Beta Prototype versions available at Madeleine?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    Just who is this Beta Prototype lady? and why is she mucking with my PBC?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    "...penetential rite oddities"

    In my admittedly weak defense, I used the order for the Penitential Rite (or Act, as the book seems to call it now) as it appears in the Gregorian Missal. Will correct, but just so you know I don't always make these things up myself.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Beta Prototype was the secret daughter of the notorious Soviet spies, Boris and Natasha. Her main claim to fame was that she, when other two year old toddlers in the fifties were saddled with Dr. Spock, Beta conversed with Mr. Spock and basically broke the quantum physics dimension barriers (see "dead cat, Schroediger) thus enabling that bespectled kid to travel back in time with his brainy dog to gather intelligence from cats like Sophocles. Because of her parents, it never occured to her to pop in on Gregory the Great, hence.....she apparently wants to chant now. How can you refuse such a pouty little Russian sweetheart, RR?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    For the life of me, I cannot find the official translation for the Gospel Acclamation during Lent. Can anyone confirm from an official source that it is, in fact:

    Laus tibi, Christe, Rex aeternae gloriae.
    Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ, King of endless glory.

    like we've been singing for years?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    Furthermore, can anyone confirm from official sources that the entire English speaking world is supposed to sing the Sequence before the Alleluia verse, and that we are therefore supposed to drop the traditional "Amen. Alleluia." from the end of the Sequence? Is that the law currently (still) in force?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Can someone answer RR's last question here? There is a ton of discussion on this subject on the forum because apparently the Graduale and the Missale disagree. I can never keep the specifics straight here.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    We recently rehashed this question on another thread,. For English Masses, I wouldn't have any doubt that the GIRM's prescription applies: Sequence first.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    Yes, the Sequence is to be sung first, without the "Amen. Alleluia". Then follows the Alleluia. Cf. GIRM 64 and Ordo Lectionum Missæ pp. 449-451.

    The right translation of Laus tibi, Christe, Rex æternæ gloriæ should be in the Lectionary, after n. 223 (that is, in the section with weekday readings, between Saturday after Ash Wednesday and Monday of the first week of Lent). I don't have this at hand, but someone with an English Lectionary should be able to confirm this.
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    Translations of Lenten Gospel Acclamations: http://www.scribd.com/doc/49815615/Lent-acclamations-OFFICIAL
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Any update on the possible time frame for the release of this greatly-anticipated edition?
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    gregp: Per the publisher, we await the sale of (some significant percentage of) the remaining 500 copies of PCB I, before publication of II can practically proceed. (Those 500 might very well represent the first 500 customers for a second edition, but so goes the world of publishing.)
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