i have no comment on tempo of hymns (or any piece of music for that fact), except to say that i have never performed anything the same way twice in my entire career even when i tried my darndest to do so. tis the great mystery of being human and is further proof that only a machine can repeat a performance with such exactitude. it'd be like telling van gogh to paint another starry night-exactly like his first one. what's the point?

i will never play it like you and vice versa even if we try. no two snowflakes are exactly alike either. however, i do know a lot of flakes that all seem exactly alike to me.

was just watching

Aarnoud de Groen performing Johann Sebastian Bach's Fugue in a-minor, BWV 543 on the organ of Bethlehemkerk, The Hague

(am presently learning it myself).

One of his commenters said this:

Mozart and Beethoven belong to the world. Bach belongs to God. It is the most level-headed music there is.

SkirpR, that is interesting. I'm not sure if what they do here falls into one of those specifications, or is simply their own variation...

Richard

Exactly.

Our Human Goodness, even at its best, is oftentimes, sadly, a stunning shroud that we insist on putting over the naked truth.

That is why WE have a much better solution about the best music for the Mass than what the Church sanctions herself.

Why do we prefer the polyphony of men and angels and the clanging cymbals when God just wants love singing through our simple voice?

This sort of thing (the regional melodic variation being discussed) REALLY makes me want to spend a few years doing serious musicological research into congregational practices across the U.S.
I bet one would find all sorts of interesting things:
-regional tempo preferences
-repertoire breakdown
-participation in congregational singing: variation by demographics and style
-the real impact of Reform2 as well as other liturgical "movements"/trends
-the fact that no parish that does "Be Not Afraid" sings the rhythm as written

I have observed that the "We lift them up to the Lord" variant might be as a result of it being printed DIFFERENTLY in the various "missalettes" than in the Roman Missal!

Well, yall don't have to worry... we have a new Preface Dialogue now.

Re: BNA

Seriously: listen to it. That's some crazy rhythms.

"Everyone sings it eighth/dotted-quarter. Why don't they just print the stupid thing that way?"
Indeed. Not everyone learns their Catholic hymnody through oral tradition. I'm constantly being stymied and confused by the difference between what's in the missalette and what is being performed.
And yes, that tune sounds like a drone afflicted with spasms.

Re: "Be Not Afraid", there is no such thing as "tempo as written" for that song, because the thing has been published with at least three substantially different versions of the melody (not to mention the lyrics changes). I've been singing in choirs long enough to remember all the different ways they've marked that puppy up with syncopations. The weirder they try to make it, the more like the Platonic ideal of "Be Not Afraid" that the congregation sings it.

(Well, actually most people are singing it as it was first distributed to them, when it apparently was published in a semi-sensible manner.)

Some composers should have the syncopation stick taken away from them, and then they should be hit with it. It's nothing but an insulting waste of choir time to do all this unnecessary and unartistic messing around with a perfectly good beat, especially since they wouldn't have to do it if they'd just wrestle some natural-sounding scansion into their lyrics. Like most professional songwriters routinely do, but which contemporary hymnwriters are apparently just too good for. Professionals should be paid for their craft first, their art close behind it, and their lazy excuses never -- much less have all these alternate editions running around.

Faugh. Yes, it bothers me a lot, especially since I expect to have to learn at least five more phrasings of that song before people stake it to the ground in a crossroads, burn it, and scatter the ashes to the four winds.

UPDATE: Honestly, I'm okay with the song, but I'm just up-to-here with futzing around with phrasing. The Eighties and Nineties were some kind of long national nightmare of hymnal publishing. At least when all we got were the words and guitar chords in the late Seventies, you just did it however your director said and you didn't have to pay extra when they changed interpretation on you.

and then put it into a copyright.

You mean I(dea) P(rison)?

If they own the copyright to the double-dotted half-caffe version, they own the rights to the single dotted double espresso with a twist.

I wrote a song a while ago, which I programmed for my choir.
During rehearsal, my wife (not a musician) kept telling me I was playing it wrong.
But it's what I wrote.
Well, you wrote it wrong.

After rehearsal, we argued some more.
I played it again.
The piano part is wrong, she tells me.

More arguing.
It can't go any other way- the chord progression is inherent to the melody line.
Nope. You're wrong.
It's my song!
Doesn't matter!

Turns out I was wrong.
When I finally landed on the progression my wife was imagining, but couldn't describe, it was painfully obvious that I was wrong and she was right.

I hope that if I had submitted that piece to a publisher (Jerry G... are you listening?... it's really good!) I would hope that someone, somewhere at the publishing company would have had at least as much musical intuition as my non-musically-trained wife, and either re-written the piano part themselves or called me up and asked me to send in another try.

My fondness for the SLJs and their music aside, I have to conclude:

Just sayin', yo.

The only thing I am "afraid" of this side of heaven is THAT DAMN SONG!

I always thought "Whistle a Happy Tune" had deeper theology behind it.

Okay, do carry on, JC, Francis et al. You know best. (God's on your side.)
Despite y'all, in the Southern sense, I'm not losing my religion over your peccadillos, you carry on about your slavish adherence and precepts. Sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities, JC. Maybe you also extend your admonition to dear Francis, who introduced the condemnatory, offending term to the thread.
And don't worry, JC, I've been way over you for quite some time. Adios, amigo.

I apologize for bringing it up.
I was trying to make a joke.

I still think an in-depth musicological study of real Catholic parish life (including the cataloging of these sorts of variations and "house rules") would be fascinating. Not that it's likely to happen.

Carry on with the chanting, please. We all do so much better when we sing more and talk less.

"These folkies see to have exulted in their own ability to sing catchy tunes without regard to the concept that others would want to sing them "
Eh, no. The essence of folk is for other people to sing them.
But we have "star syndrome". Neo-folk artists have certain vocal stylings that they apply to their material. They are things that don't notate well. Even the most accurate lead sheets don't get it all down. And when we try to sing from them, we bog down in the detail. Imagine transcribing a typical pop diva's attempt at the Star-Spangled Banner and then teaching it to people as "the" SSB. It would not fly. which is why we need regularized versions of these things. And if people don't find them appealing because "they don't sound like the original", then maybe we should cop to the fact that the original was musically weak.

As for it "happening again"... the 60s/70s were the only time in Catholic Church music where music was performer-driven. Yes, all the old masters performed. But there's a limit to how much you can ornament a line of polyphony, even singing one-on-a-part. Co-composition occasionally happened (the Allegri Miserere is probably the most famous example), but ultimately, somebody set the notes down first. And with old folk hymns, the oral transmission process rubbed the sharp edges off. With the advent of recordings and semi-star performers, there was "an authoritative version" on record, which soon entered print, which meant that the folk process couldn't effectively iron out the kinks. Now, are we likely to ever have again the "perfect storm" of popular folk performers PLUS a complete change in the language and pattern of the Mass? I don't think so.

Wow... what the heck is going on here! I think we all blew a fuse somewhere... I am going to go back to the breaker box and reset the switch. Meanwhile, let's all just join together and chant the Ave Maria, since this is Our Lady's feast day. Ready?...

Fabing reads music, he just doesn't possess the faculties to denote it precisely.

It's called basic music skills. He who is unable or unwilling to do learn them would seem to lack the impetus to be a musician and should probably hire someone more talented and educated than himself to....oh. That's what he did.