I Am in Purgatory Already
  • First Sunday with new translation of the Mass Ordinary and what do I hear? A completely unsatisfactory reworking of the Mass of Creation. Apparently at my church it must be the only setting allowed. Time to find a Mass w/o music again...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    It's not necessarily different in other places. We have three mandated mass settings we can use for one year from advent - English chant from the missal, Latin chant (at least there are more of those) and a bland, uninspired masterpiece, "Missa Luna" for when the bishop visits. After the year is up, I will look for other good mass settings for my parish keeping, of course, the English and Latin chant masses.

    MOC is too awful to die graciously. It needs a stake driven through it. To those who wax euphoric about the use of the word, "chant," in the revised GIRM, I can only say that the same musicians who have chosen MOC for years are still in place and working. Does anyone actually expect them to change?
  • painful
  • One parish intends to have their choir, priests and deacons meet on Wednesday, master the Missa Luna Glory to God in one sitting and teach it next Sunday and then sing it at all the Masses. (I am constantly reminded of my crazy landlady in Italy whose family name was Lunatici...for various reasons)

    Was not the DOM's decision or plan. But having been promised a $3,000 raise after one year when hired and getting $300, he's not surprised that he's also left out of major musical decisions. Got a Masters Degree in music...no one will be surprised when he walks...or runs.

    People wonder why good and especially great Catholic musicians populate so many Protestant choirlofts?
  • Can't MoC be replaced by something - anything - from Montani's Black List?
  • mwa
    Posts: 22
    that's why I've been afraid to ask what the plan is at my parish--after the past 10 years of nothing but MoC (except the occasional use of what I think of as the "Barney" agnus), I can't bear to know for sure that we won't escape it with the new translation.
    Today we had the customary MoC, with Let There be Peace on Earth, Eat This Bread, Eagle's Wings, and God Bless America. Usquequo Domine?
  • Amen, mwa. Same at St. John the Evangelist. I wonder: what is considered "safe" to ask the director of music what the plan is? She has told us nothing. Is asking her what the plans are okay? Or would it be best if us folks in the pews just waited and listened?
  • mwa,naugeos if this were my weekly sunday experience, I would not be of sound mind.
  • I'm sorry to have to put a spider in the punch bowl here, and Mike I especially feel your pain at the likelihood of ministerial laziness at your parish.
    But, did you all listen to the propers and the readings yesterday???
    How many times are we to forgive one another for a grievance? Three, seven?
    Okay, tho' I'm not a MOC proponent and never have been, and never used it on Sunday's (just for weddings/funerals), its usage cannot possibly be seriously condemned as being a Catholic deal breaker, much less an assault or violence against our persons and souls. Yesterday was, if nothing else, a somber reminder that we church musicians shouldn't dwell only within the little petrie dishes of our professions.
    If I recall, MOC has been excoriated here and elsewhere thoroughly quite regularly in the past, to what avail other than further alienation among those who should try to travel their pilgrimage in roughly the same direction?
    Nothing to see here, move on.
    Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, miserere mei. Amen.
  • Charles, you miss my (and a few others') point here. It's not that MoC is so awful, it's the exclusive use of it for years on end! I had hoped to have something new (anything!) but heard the same old, tired notes with new words forced into them. It's a really horrid reworking IMO. What's worse is that folks will not buy into the new translation when their customary "Mass parts" are so clumsily rendered. One almost thinks it were done on purpose...
  • I miss my Gettysburg church, where we had 4 settings in rotation and everyone seemed to be fine.
  • Yes, I could deal with MoC every once in a while along with a variety of other things, but the lineup as mentioned above is incredibly static, dated, and thoughtless - and extremely common in parish after parish. The sheer tedium is absolutely mind numbing and deadening.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Also, the revised settings are just a bad idea at this point.
    Even if it's a good setting, and the revision is good (rare), if people know the old version, it's going to be hard for them to put new wine in their old wineskins.

    On the other hand, if you just teach a new Gloria or a new Sanctus, no one is going to accidentally sing the wrong words.
    In fact, a lot of people probably won't notice that it is a different text.
  • No, Mike, I really didn't miss your point. I acknowledged that you're in purgatory because of someone's purposeless laziness. I'm well on record, most notably at my 4 parishes, for mandating that there are NO re-tread Masses to be used for at least a year. This MR3 "business," if nothing else, is a golden opportunity for DM's that shouldn't be missed.
    But I hold onto my point that this forum and its sponsoring organization does no good for itself, or anyone else observing, by rehashing exhausted critical topics, which will eventually lead to someone decrying "our bunch" as mean-spirited demonizers. This line of reasoning is akin to mom's advice, "if you ain't got something good to say, then..."
    It is not about fraternal correction or charity by saving poor souls from the tyranny of Dicocesan/parish DM's that don't read music, or "let's all just get along." As I said, there's much more to be gained by either rolling up the sleeves and taking the system on from within, voting with yer feet, or suffering purgatory and offering it up. Ranting the same ol' same ol' accomplishes zilch. We got better and bigger fish to fry. (Metaphor count: 1.2K)
  • I miss my Gettysburg church, where we had 4 settings in rotation and everyone seemed to be fine.

    Well, Mike, assuming you don't need income, you could come help me out here.
    We're rotating (not on our thumbs):
    Missa Simplex-Proulx emulant chant
    Mass of St. Ann - Bolduc, surprisingly viable P/W
    Mass of St. Therese of the Child Jesus (Nickel)- local, Anglican style choral/chant
    Mass of New World - Haas accessible
    ICEL- mandated for all parishes last Sunday of each month at English Masses.

    We may rotate the Steve Warner "Charity and Love" with the Nickel, as it might prove more accessible to congregation.

    I'm not hearing any griping. 'Course, I'm a big guy and my general smiley face is scowl-like.
  • A low Mass : please!
  • Ralph, I've shot my eye out!
    Whattayousayin'?
  • Sounds pretty good Charles. It was hinted at my church that a large donor was very partial to MoC... Alas.
  • You know, Mike, this may be the most cogent and worst observation I've ever let public in a lifetime on the intertube:
    Job description: DM must possess qualities that clearly display s/he is the baddest predator in the jungle, and willing to go for the jugular of any presumptive know it all ego with or without funds that wants to mark territory in the musical rain forest, even if said threat wears a clerical collar.
    Sorry, folks, that's my bottom line. Love me, love my dog (which is actually a wolf.)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Charles, dear, you invented the intertubes.

    I simply cannot agree with your job description, though. A DM has a middle row to hoe and it ain't easy. Not merely a hired gun, s/he is optimally a real shepherd, not running away from the sheep, not a mere hireling.

    http://youtu.be/kFWiqhMJzvs

    And yet, the real shepherd, for Catholics, is not a DM but the pastor. We don't have a youth pastor, a music pastor. We have a pastor--that's the man. The DM may love the parish, but the pastor is married to the parish. It's not the "collar" that is important but the oils on the hands. It's his charism.

    http://youtu.be/L90ZGd850CQ
  • Duly chastised.
    But just having witnessed a sheep attack upon one of our friends, a CMAA member, which resulted in a clerical capitulation to such "influence" that Mike mentions, and my friend's abrupt, unexpected and undeserved dismissal, my demeanor above reflects years of being typified as a John the Baptist awaiting the arrival of the real Christ to both his chair in his office, and the chair from which he presides at Mass. And yes, I know how dificult a dedicated life as a priest must be. But as regards our role as stewards of musical worship, we need to be a "real" shepherd in all ways that term implies.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    I am very sorry to hear about this--another summary dismissal. My sincere sympathies to your friend.
  • I know you can't run a church without money, but I do wish more pastors would trust the Lord to provide when they do what is right.
  • Here's a routine reminder: Avoid flames: critique principles, not people. Be discriminating but don't nitpick. Be academic not acerbic. Be principled not polemical.
  • I find the problems arise when the church is run in an HR mentality as if a corporation.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Word back from the Liturgy & Music person at the parish nearest to me:

    ... We just introduced and began using the Mass of Christ the Savior by Dan Schutte this past weekend featuring the new translation. The congregation seemed receptive and joined in the refrains and acclamations ...

    As far as using the chants outside of the Gloria, Gospel Acclamation and Eucharistic Acclamations, that will be up to our presider. If he prefers to use them then we will use the chants that are included in our worship resource "Breaking Bread" from Oregon Catholic Press. ... Our community prefers contemporary music and participation may actually be hindered if we use the chants - our tradition has been to speak the dialogues and sing the Mass settings.

    Personally, I do appreciate the chants and traditional music and enjoy the beauty and challenge of singing them. But I have done parish music surveys and found overwhelmingly that we prefer contemporary music. Participation by the assembly is the most important element when selecting the parts of Mass to sing and the choices of music. I must collaborate with the music ministry to promote a music style that fits best with our community and that they are willing to sing, as all our music ministers are part of our parish family as well. When selecting music, I use the recommendations from "Today's Liturgy" by Oregon Catholic Press and carefully consider the words of songs so that the theological or scriptural message complements the scriptures and celebration of the day - and if the song is familiar to the parish. Of course we incorporate new music and choral selections but primarily we stick to a familiar repertoire to enhance participation.
  • Word counts:

    our - 7 times
    we - 6 times
    I - 4 times
    prefer - 3 times
    Christ - 1 time
    liturgy - 1 time
    ministry - 1 time
    assembly - 1 time too many
    propers - 0
    ordinary - 0

    Interesting.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I don't even know where to start with that whole mess that Giffen posted...
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Then you sense my sense of loss...
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    Let me count some of the problems with that nonsense/copout CHGiffen posted:

    "that will be up to our presider"
    --You wouldn't want to influence him in any way, would you? No, no. It's completely up to him. Don't even bring it up. Ugh.

    "'Breaking Bread' from Oregon Catholic Press"
    --I'm not saying that a good, devoted, highly-skilled musician can't do a good job with OCP resources. I'm just saying that there are far better quality materials available. A good DLM would know this and move in that direction.

    "Our community prefers contemporary music"
    --Oh, goodness. It's all about what the community prefers, is it? I think they'd PREFER to do "On Eagle's Wings" and "Be Not Afraid" every week. The Good Lord knows that I get asked for them for 90% of all the funerals I do. It's up to the DLM to exert some influence over their preferences. Perhaps start to adopt a more "blended" style. They probably won't even know it happened. Furthermore, there's no need to do these chants a cappella. ICEL has provided organ accompaniments, and the chants are NOT that hard to learn. I do not think it will freak people out, once they've been in place for a few weeks/months.

    "parish music surveys"
    --What a good use of your time...*sarcasm*

    "Participation by the assembly is the most important element"
    --No it isn't. If they wanted to sing the Ordinary to the tune (I use the word "tune" loosely) of a Justin Bieber song, that wouldn't be appropriate for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, even if it would enable them to participate easily. No Britney Spears, no Aerosmith, no Willie Nelson, no Buddy Holly tunes for the Mass.

    This person does not seem like a silly or frivolous person (based solely off of this one thing I've read), but this is a complete copout. They're abdicating responsibility, and that is the opposite of what we are called to do. It's disappointing.

    I'm a young music director, 25 yrs old, M.Mus, in my second year of a full-time gig, and I take the responsibility of being a true leader and minister very seriously. It's disappointing that this director seems content to "go with the flow" and let the assembly and OCP dictate the music that is sung.

    Frustrating.
  • Irishtenor,
    I'm a ScotsTenor, an old music director, 60 years old, MMus, in my 41st year of FT DM gigs, etc. Still working God's purpose out.
    Your zeal and sure-footedness will serve you well, as well as the wisdom you display in realizing that you must lead by example, attraction and good natured patience and tolerance. I've lacked each of those qualities at various points of my career, and yet still am in love with Liturgy as my telescope to the beatific vision, and am still employed at my current postition coming on two decades this next month, in spite of myself.
    What I pray for you has a great deal to do with what I posted before Chuck's lamentation: the political aspects of working for the "AmChurch" are metastiscizing into some sort of HR Rabbit Hole meets "The Office" meets Msgr. Abbott and Vicar Costello. Bellicosity and bite don't go as far as they did back in the day, and nice guys more likely are never to finish first on the race track we're now on.
    Burn your candles steady and slow to keep the true light spreading, don't burn out with zeal vs. frustration.
    Take as your models the legends of then, Schuler, Marier, Salamunovich, and those of now, Oost Zinner, Mahrt, Poterak.
    And try to stay in one place for at least a decade, or even generation. Make sure you've planted vines with deep roots.
    Schlange.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "...let the assembly and OCP dictate the music that is sung."

    They have to sing it, don't they?
  • Here's a routine reminder: Remember who we are.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    Charles in CenCA,

    Thanks for your response :)

    Gavin,

    I'm not sure I understand. Could you elaborate?
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    charles
    you were talking to irish tenor but you also spoke volumes to me.
    thank you.