Ninefold Kyrie in the OF
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    According to GIRM ¶ 52, it seems to me that retaining the ninefold kyrie would be allowed in the OF. Am I missing something, or is it actually allowed?

    Each acclamation is usually pronounced twice, though it is not to be excluded that it be repeated several times [like maybe nine times?], by reason of the character of the various languages,[hmm...such as latin?]as well as of the artistry of the music [such as chant?] or of other circumstances.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    I don't think they could make a bigger loophole than that if they tried.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Seems to me that if they wanted to make it optional, they would have said "it is optional." That they did not do so, but rather allowed the possibility for legitimate reasons, such as cases where existing music requires it or using various languages suggests it, indicates that it would be an abuse to take advantage of the option just because "I like it better that way" or "they should never have changed it in the first place."

    Incidentally, the normative Latin for the portion you quoted says that the invocations are each sung twice de more, "by custom." Regrettably this has been dynamically translated "usually" in our glorious new GIRM. :-/
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,182
    The norm in the Ordo Cantus Missae (which is in force for OF Masses sung in Latin) may help to flesh this out:

    2. Pertaining to the chant of the Kyrie, when nine invocations are notated fully, the musical «form» requires that they be sung in their entirety. In contrast, when one melody is to be repeated for the first invocations of Kyrie, this invocation is only sung twice. Similarly for the following invocations Christe and Kyrie (for example, Kyrie V). When the final Kyrie is written with a distinct melody (e.g., Kyrie I), the Kyrie preceding it is only sung once. In this way the general rule of repeating each invocation once is preserved.


    So if you're using a chant whose melodic form provides for nine invocations (e.g., Kyrie IX), it's fine to sing it in full.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    My children's schola has been singing 9 fold Kyrie at OF for 3 years.
    I asked my pastor whether it's ok do to it, so the children learn the tradition of 9 fold Kyrie, and remember 9 choirs of angels around the altar, and it helps them to take more time to pray and ask for God's mercy to receive our Lord at the Communion. (I found that it also helps them to be more awake to remember each time than just repeating it.)
    So I got ok from him. I explained this to the congregation when we started the children's schola, and I indicate in the handouts of the text and the translation to join in the parts that are bolded for alternated singing. (actually, I have boys in the schola sing the entire 9 times while girls help the congregation.)

    The children ask why adults sing only 6 times. I don't have a good answer for that. Maybe I said they are too busy for longer Kyrie?
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    miacoyne-- lol! yes, you should say that!
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