P.S. to the note above. We called a Roland representative to get an idea how much money the Roland portable organ keyboard might run and the rep left a message. He didn't give us a figure but did say the Roland C-200 organ is very popular and has just been installed in the Sistine Chapel.

That's what he said on the message. Go figure that out if you can.

P.S. I just googled "organ in Sistine Chapel" and came up with this article about a new Swiss-made organ (Mathis Orgelbau) being installed on 14 December 2002 so I really don't know what that fellow was talking about.

Maybe he meant at a Sistine chapel replica. Perhaps EPCOT or Las Vegas?

(FYI, I did fact check with the rep and he confirmed again that the Vatican recently installed a Roland C-200 in the Sistine Chapel. Maybe they wanted a portable organ as well as the stationary one?)

Maybe he meant at a Sistine chapel replica. Perhaps EPCOT or Las Vegas?

I always wondered what they did with the space that used to house Siegfried and Roy at Caesar's Palace.

I share your frustration over the limitations of keyboards. It's impossible to find anything under $2000 that has a decent organ sound. We have spent hours trolling through music stores sampling keyboards but it's always the same predictable range of corny organ sounds, no matter what brand you try.

We're very interested in the Hauptwerk organ programs which offer a huge variety of beautiful organ stops which can be downloaded to a MIDI keyboard so you can program the drawbars with a pretty decent range of options, but it's complicated and cumbersome to say the least.

My son set up our Yamaha workstation with a trial version of the most basic Hauptwerk program and we were thrilled with the effect, but it would be almost impossible to transport, reconstruct and operate on a regular basis.

Two out of my last three organs had 25-note flat radiating pedalboards. There are limitations, but they are useful for helping to keep your feet co-ordinated. If anything, the AGO/BDO style concave radiating pedalboard is easier to play.

If you are stuck with the choice between no pedalboard and the 25-note variety, get the 25-note pedalboard. You can get old 30 or 32-note pedalboards and midify them, but I think the Roland PK-25 is designed to be a bit more portable than those.

Then there is always this new company which produces kits for pedalboards:

http://www.pedamidikit.org

The cheapest I've ever seen a new electric organ was $18,000. Still more than what I can afford, and considering that a half-decent electric piano/keyboard is easily under $2,000, you can see why most churches think it's better to buy the keyboard, because they don't have anyone who can play the organ anyway.

What we really need is something like the Roland C230, but which is also designed to be easily expanded into a two-manual+pedal instrument by hooking up a 61-note midi keyboard and a midi pedalboard.

I wasn't looking at an actual price sheet. But when I asked an Allen rep for a rough estimate for a small, 2-manual with AGO pedal board for a practice instrument he quoted around $30K off the top of his head. Perhaps they do have some in the $20K range but that's still beyond what I can afford. He suggested finding a used instrument to be more budget friendly. Still...the only organs that pop up for cheap tend to be the parlor type (Lowrey, et al).

It has always been a mystery to me why some digital organ company has not marketed a practical, inexpensive home practice instrument. I envision this instrument as having two manuals (some works like trio sonatas just can't be practiced adequately with only one manual) with limited stops (maybe just an 8' and 4') and pedal board. There should also be an option to play the instrument silently (for the benefit of apartment dwellers with neighbors). It needn't be a fancy piece of furniture, just have standard keyboard dimensions and be within everyone's budget.

Back in my student days it was common for pianists to have silent keyboards. They were relatively inexpensive and immensely useful. Organists deserve the same.

There is no reason a two-manual + pedalboard decent organ synth (for practice use) couldn't be made and sold for $2-5K. I've looked into parts and manufacturing costs.

Someone who knows more about organ design and the market for it needs to start a Kickstarter.

The closest thing that I have seen to this idea is the K&M Baby-Spider Pro keyboard stand. You can add up to two tiers.

It's expensive at $300, but it's great because it's portable.

What's the going price on these?

all things midi can be found here...

http://www.midiworks.ca/

A Johannus Studio 170 can be had for $8k or less. You can choose between 3 different 30-note pedalboards.

The Opus 270 also has a choice of pedalboards (but 32-note), and can be upgraded from plastic keyboards to wood core plastic keys, solid wood keys, or custom UHT wooden keyboards. It starts around $10k.

I played home instruments from Allen, Roland/Rogers and Johannus at the AGO convention in Nashville, and found that only Johannus had a touch that even remotely resembled a typical pipe organ keyboard.

Johannus was also the only vendor for whom a flat pedalboard to typical European standards wasn't a big deal. As with many vendors, the pedalboards are interchangeable, so you can buy both and switch based on current needs.

While I was initially drawn to the Studio 170, I'm considering the Opus to be able to upgrade to reverse colored wooden keys. I'm also considering purchasing the wooden keyboards from midiworks.ca, and midifying a pedalboard to be locally sourced, or ordered from OSI. I just don't like having to always use my computer with it. I know I could buy a midi expander box for it, but those are far from cheap.

The Roland factory in Italy is proud to have the Vatican choose to use their organs when an organ is not available in a location outside the Vatican and in the Sistine Chapel when the decision is made that a smaller, more portable instrument would be more appropriate.

The lovely little Mathis organ was built so that it may be moved in and out of the Chapel, with a storage room for it prepared outside the chapel, as is mentioned in articles about the organ.

Typically moving a portable pipe organ requires time to it is sit and acclimate to the room temperature and humidity before it can be reliably tuned. Possibly the use of the Roland is for occasions where there is not time or money for the Mathis (3.5 metric tons?) to be trucked in and out of the room.

Would you rather have them use guitars?

You may not be aware that the organist at the Vatican is NOT permitted to practice on the Vatican organ freely...and I'm sure that that would also apply to the Mathis if it were sitting in the Chapel - hopefully the storage room would permit use of it there.

Also, don't pose as the Vatican Organist unless you are.

You should expect to pay from possibly just under $2,000 to 3,500 for a single keyboard organ - the C-200 is on the high end of that.

Hah! ROFL

I have a firm policy of discounting to organists and not churches...an organ that goes to a home "disappears" and requires little if any time and effort in the way of education and service during and after the warranty period and because....churches have $, organists do not!

I've been hunting a source for BDO 30 note concave flat-radiating pedalboards built in the US - at this point I can get them out of Germany and Italy, but I'd prefer to buy in the US. I've got a harpsichord as well as a C-200 I'd use them on.

While I've played on many flat-parallel pedalboards, I've just played a parallel concave pedalboard 2 days ago (the Fisk at Rice Universite in Houston) and was amazed at how easy it was to play on. I think it's a great design.

The Roland PK-25 pedalboard costs more than the C-200. Don't even consider it.

I've been unable to find a 30 note BDO pedalboard built in the US. Roland will not sell theirs as an independent product. Viscount is said to have a nice one but they insist that I buy 5 at a time - not interested. Laukhuff may be the best source.

If you want an AGO, call your local pipe organ repair/builder - get a used on, buy a MIDI interface and wire it yourself to save $.

If you're looking for a midi pedalboard. This is always an option:

http://www.pedamidikit.org

They sell pedalboards in kit form.

Unfortunately, there are very few organ builders here in Australia and not much a supply of spare parts either.

Get them both on trial at the same time - that's always the best way to make this kind of decision.

They can't afford not to loan them both to you on trial [try it out without paying for it to see if you want to buy it] if they want to make a sale.