Saturday Vigil Masses and FACP
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I was intrigued by Adam Wood's comment that, correct me if I'm wrong, AW, seems to suggest that the typical Saturday Vigil congregation is predisposed not to enjoin singing anything.
    I've been the principal provider and leader of singing at Sat. Vigils since an ten year stint in Oakland Diocese, a now 23 year stint (4 at cathedral, 19 here at present gig) and my experience is the polar opposite of Adam's take.
    The demographics of my 33 years of vigil experience has remained quite consistent: mostly folks above the age of 40, a large portion above even 60, some families with children who I know to frequent Sunday morning Masses regularly, and the scattering of "other" types.
    But, what also has been consistent is that, with competent and confident leadership, these people sing like Mennonites, save for the SATB! They can raise the roof on the Gloria, Alleluia, Sanctus and most of the processional/dismissal choices, and they have, do and will continue this into my retirement, I expect. It's amazing to me their level of enthusiastic, precise participation. That's not to say that other congregations are weaker, but ie. our very good schola choir I believe gets listened to more than conjoined at certain moments in the Mass. This crowd normally will take up the Entrance and Kyrie, but listen to the Gloria (which is not above their comprehension or aquisition.) They'll sing the psalm and alleluia (chanted) but it depends on the choice of the Offertory music, and so forth.
    The Vigil crowd sings everything. And that goes for each of my church experiences. What I have consistently avoided is the formation and scheduling of a choir or ensemble for the vigil. One or two song leader/psalmist with accompaniment works best for these folk apparently.
    What's your take?
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Vigil goers I've known as MD in other parishes are typically the die-hard crew. In general, they know it's late and long and they go out of their way to attend. Because of this, they are more likely to vocally participate. Just my own limited sphere of experience speaking here.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    You essentially have my suggestion correct. You, however, have a wider array of experience, so it's certainly likely your experience is more normative.

    Some details that perhaps shed light on my observation....

    -My primary experience has been in the parish I grew up in, which is the only parish where I regularly attended multiple Masses on a weekend.
    -That parish was in Florida.
    -The Saturday evening was at 4pm.
    -The parish musical culture was primarily (what I think we should call) the habitual music of the very ordinary form.
    -Often, over the course of years, the music choices for the 4pm service were deliberately different from the other Masses, in an attempt to make them more "traditional." (Read: more Protestant hymns, sung more slowly).
    -The primary attendants to that Mass were retirees and snowbirds, many of whom backed-in to their parking spaces and will leave after communion in an attempt to be first-in-line for the early-bird dinner buffet

    While I have not spent years in many other parishes observing things, limited anecdotal evidence from other Floridian parishes has confirmed that this is the usual case.

    Of course I am not suggesting that the lack of singing (in my experience) is tied to an intrinsic anti-participation attribute of the above-described congregation. What I'm suggesting is that this crowd seems particularly unenthusiastic about the habitual music and/or Protestant hymns sung slowly. This means they are a good candidate to become Gregorian guinea pigs. Further, the (possibly-true) fact that this Mass tends to be ignored/neglected by the "Contemporary Music" ensemble (junta) further means that it's a good place to start something that will encounter limited opposition.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    My impression here in New England is that the 4pm Saturday vigil Mass is attended by a congregation that skews older and more female than average and that not only likes sentimental sacropop, but sings along with it.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    interesting. At my current parish, the 4:30 pm vigil definitely lacks singing. It could be because it is the least attended of the Masses so there is not much motivation to sing (the whole "everyone feels like they are singing a solo" thing.) Many of the older folks who hate the chant and latin that our parish is starting to incorporate more of attend that Mass. There is just a cantor there instead of the choir. that's my personal take. but, my current parish is quite unusual in it's recent history as well as current liturgical leanings, take that however you will!
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    That's so funny, RC, I had one of "those ladies" come up to me after the last 4pm, and who likes the mix Wendy and I provide, and then ruminated my way, "I wonder if reverence will ever return to the Mass?" I thought she was talking about the musical mix, so I suggested she attend the schola Mass. She said she did regularly, but that wasn't what she was kvetsching about. She bemoaned all the AARP's chatting constantly before, during, and after!- The casual postures evident to her from the PIPs whether sitting, kneeling, standing, etc. It's really weird, because one would think the last hurrah of Emily Post would come from her (m-m-m-m-my) generation. So I just shared with her "we're trying..."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I sometimes have to remember that the 55-65 year olds of my childhood are not the 55-65 year olds of today.
    I see a face of a certain age and I expect them to be a traditionalist of my grandfather's generation. Instead I find my uncle with his rock guitar.

    Growing up is hard...
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Yeah, it's tad weird, Adam, when those of us who don't have Dorian Grey mirrors have chance encounters (via Classic Rock or some CSI episode) with Roger Daltry and the Who spitting out "Why don't you all just f-f-f-f-f-f-fade away?!?"
    Then a quick, existential cut to scene of DeNiro as Travis Bickle rehearsing in front of HIS mirror image, "You talkin' to ME?" And suddenly we've become Henry Fonda in "On Golden Pond" or John Wayne in "True Grit." Our poster boy is Clint Eastwood, luckily not such a bad icon (and he's from Oakland!) And Tom Hanks is starting to show his age as well. (He's from OAKLAND!) Wow, what if all those characters showed up for vigil? With Betty White in tow.
    So, I'm going to keep a watchful eye on you, Bartlett and Ostrowski at Pittsburgh, just in case you're hiding the long knives under your togas ;-p

    But there's always the B'Bye Birdie maxim: "Kids! What's the matter with kids toDAY?"
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    This tangent brings up a good point...

    On the one hand (the left one), I find the insistence (on the part of some) for the complete and swift removal of the habitual music of the very ordinary form to be... not a good thing. It is, I believe, damaging and unkind to so drastically change something loved and participated in by faithful people since their childhood. (And yes, yes- I recognize that happened 40 years ago... doesn't make it right to do it in reverse).

    However, on the other hand...
    Whereas music built on trends will always be passing in nature, it is equally (or moreso) unfeeling and unkind to our children to do things which will encourage them to fall in love with, and tie their faith to, something (even something objectively good) which is likely to slip away from them.
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