OF Mass exclusively in English /vernacular
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Most OF Masses I've been are celebrated exclusively in English/vernacular (not counting a few words of Hebrew and Greek, of course), and not a single Latin prayer.

    How do we preserve Latin in OF as the Church instructs? Vernacular is allowed, but is only vernacular permitted?
    Does US bishops have an official approval of this kind of Mass from the Holy See? Is there a document of the approval? Mostly I attend OF Masses, and I still don't know many things about the Liturgy. It would help me greatly to know that our parish Masses are not doing something against the Church's teachings, whether it's intentional or not.

    SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM

    36. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.

    2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.

    3. These norms being observed, it is for the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority mentioned in Art. 22, 2, to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used; their decrees are to be approved, that is, confirmed, by the Apostolic See. And, whenever it seems to be called for, this authority is to consult with bishops of neighboring regions which have the same language.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    Ch. 36:3 contains your answer: the Episcopal Conferences are free to propose certain limits to the vernacular, or even to propose no limits at all. As long as the Holy See approved, the decision took effect.

    Since Rome approved the Roman Missal English translation for use in the United States, that's sufficient permission to say Mass completely in English.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    There was an attempt by the bishops to make the English Mass the "official" mass of the US, ruling out an Latin, and this was struck down by Rome.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    "Since Rome approved the Roman Missal English translation for use in the United States, that's sufficient permission to say Mass completely in English."

    I might be being very naive, but just because English translation of the entire Mass is approved and available, that doesn't necessarily mean you can do it all in English. It can be that each diocese can select certain parts in vernacular from the translation?
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    "Ch. 36:3 contains your answer"

    But isn't 36:1 is mentioned first so you don't completely leave out Latin in 36:3...
    "to decide whether, and to what extent, the vernacular language is to be used"?
    English is not my naitive language, so I might be missing something here. But I truly don't see the permission of All Vernacular Mass, otherwise 36:1 and 36:3 may look contradicting. (maybe missionaries had to get a special permission for that, but I don't understand how countries like US will be allowed or needed to have All Vernacular Mass?)

    I just want to know the truth, not to criticize how it's done.
    I'd like to learn that there are better reasons for Al Vernacular Mass that good priests and the faithful are doing than just because it's been that way for last 40 years.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,985
    I saw an article in a GIA magazine by Fr. Ruff. I rarely agree with him, but he made a couple of good points in this article. He pointed out that SC made a number of statements, many of them contradictory. He also noted that the contradictions had encouraged adherents of either position to find the statements supporting their positions, and ignore the rest.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    As Noel pointed out above, there is no regulation forbidding the use of Latin.

    Conversely, there is no regulation requiring that *every single* Mass include some Latin.

    In principle, priests are free offer Mass in Latin, and this has been restated by CDWDS.

    You and I might think that the officials in Rome have not done a very good job of seeing that 36:1 is followed, but there is no higher authority than the Holy See, to which to appeal past decisions.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks Chonak, but I don't see that the Church had any intention of permitting All Vernacular Mass in US, and the instruction above (36)is NOT contradicting. It may look conradicting, maybe because we are not doing it right?
    Also it seems that the Church trusted that the faithful and the bishops would be doing it in the right way without further reinforcements. (using vernacular only for necessary parts.
    36:2 "This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to SOME of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters."
    36:2 says 'some,' never mentioned anywhere that 'ALL' is ok or a possible option.
    Where are the subsequent chapters on regulations mentioned above?)

    Could it be that some liturgist and bishops turned the Mass to All vernacular and no one actually asked why and how?

    I've been talking with many young priests who are interested in sacred music and liturgy, and I'd like to bring this to their attention and ask them after I gather more accurate interpretation and facts. If anyone know any other documents and reference materials regarding ALL Vernacular Mass, please let me know. I'd truly appreciate it.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    Here are some elements toward an answer:

    The 1964 instruction "Inter Oecumenici" allowed (no. 57) the vernacular for all parts of the Mass except those said or sung by the priest alone.

    The 1967 document "Tres abhinc annos" allowed (no. 28) that bishops' conferences may authorize the vernacular for the canon of the Mass.
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