Mundelein Psalter: prayer tone mediant cadence?
  • mhjell
    Posts: 32
    The location of the mediant is not marked in the Prayer texts in the Mundelein Psalter. Is there a rule for it's location?

    -Mike

    P.S. I didn't get a response from litinst@usml.edu when I emailed the same question at the beginning of the week.
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    The introduction to this psalter teaches how the psalms are very simply pointed. The mediant occurs at the asterisk (*). The italic syllable indicates when to first change pitch in the mediant pattern. Then sing one syllable per pitch in the formula. Any extra syllables are sung on the final pitch of the mediant formula. The termination formula is marked similarly. The flex is indicated with a dagger. In the Mundelein Psalter, the flex is just a pause on the same reciting pitch.

    See page 46 in the introduction here.

    EDIT:
    OOPS! I see now you mean the prayers and not the psalm.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    mhjell,

    I'd email the source directly (Fr. Samuel F. Weber, OSB, weber@kenrick.edu) if you'd like an answer with MP questions. Fr. Samuel did all the musical and text-setting work.
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Fr. Samuel did all the musical and text-setting work.


    In fact, Fr. Douglas Martis was the editor of the Mundelein Psalter (Director of the Liturgical Institute). Fr. Weber composed the tones but the pointing of the texts was the domain of Fr. Martis.
  • mhjell
    Posts: 32
    Since the rest of the Hours are well pointed, the lack of such on the Prayer (I keep wanting to include "Closing") was surprising to me. I'm almost thinking it's gotta be associated with the sentence ending before the Trinitarian formula.

    No luck finding a direct email address for Fr Martis. Still hoping the general address will get a response soon.

    This is one of the open questions for our parish starting to use these settings for our Sunday Evening Prayer.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Adam,

    Since you were on the scene...I believe you! Mea culpa. That said, I'm sure Fr. Samuel would have some ideas about this; perhaps there would be some "clues" in his new compline book.
  • mhjell
    Posts: 32
    My copy of his Office of Compline is in transit. I wasn't sure whether it was identical or not; but decided to support both ventures monetarily anyway.

    I'll post what I find.

    -Mike.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    It is my understanding that there is no official pointing of the Grail Psalms. The pointing in the MP works for the tones included there, but when singing to full Gregorian tones, sometimes the MP pointing does not allow for as many syllables as needed. Pointing the Grail Psalms for Gregorian tones is a job that needs to be done, and I have a mind to do it at some point in the next year or so (perhaps a summer project) unless somebody beats me to it.
  • mhjell
    Posts: 32
    Fr Weber's Book of Compline arrived yesterday.

    Observation #1: The Foreword says this is part of a larger Saint Louis Antiphonary of the Hours. The tones are more advanced than the very simple ones in the Mundelein Psalter. The antiphons are not tones; they are more melodic.

    Observation #2: The Prayer tone is very close to that of the Mundelein Psalter. An additional cadence is present in the longer prayers. The identical mediant cadence is usually at the sentence/phrase ending before the sentence/phrase that precedes the Trinitarian formula. We'll try that until hearing otherwise.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I asked this before, but since we're talking about it again, does anyone know where the "Deus in adjutorium" in Fr. Weber's Compline book comes from? I haven't seen it anywhere else.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    SkirpR:

    I will see Father this coming week (coincidentally, to purchase some copies of the compline for my church). I'll try to remember to ask him about the Deus.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I am pointing the Revised Grail Psalms for Anglican Chant at this time.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Thanks, Bruce!
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Okay, I lied...snowstorm has gotten in the way...I should see him next week, though.
  • Eric D. WilliamsEric D. Williams
    Posts: 27
    Was this ever resolved? I'm very curious.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Since this thread was resurrected, I have a related question: Does anyone know the source of the hymn melodies? A couple of the melodies match the Liber Hymnarius, but most do not. I speculate that Fr. Weber either composed them for the project or perhaps borrowed them from other sources, but I can't find anything that credits the source of the tune. I also sent a message to the Liturgical Institute as well as Fr. Weber directly, but haven't received a reply from either. It's been a couple years since I reached out to them.

    Fr. Weber also has another hymnal for the hours available from Lulu, which is more complete. It's interesting that in that collection some tunes match the Liber, others match Mundelein, and others are completely different.

    Having found several of Fr. Weber's manuscripts from the time he was in St. Louis and comparing that to the published collection of propers from Ignatius, my best guess is that Fr. Weber is constantly revising and editing his own work.

    As for the OP's question, I would guess that the prayer formula is simply left open to individual interpretation. The book also lacks a recitation formula for the short reading, through composed antiphons, and hymn tunes for most of the proper and common hymns. Still it's a great resource for attempting to sing the office in English.
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