Responsorial Psalm
  • Dale Fleck
    Posts: 49
    At the cathedral here the text for the responsorial psalm is always from the lectionary. The verses are chanted either in unison (responsively between women and men or between cantor and choir) or in parts. However, we have criticized by some persons throughout the diocese that the verses are to be sung ONLY by a cantor. Is there any document that supports this? I would appreciate comments from my colleagues.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I've never thought about this, but the GIRM and the GIL (General Introduction to the Lectionary) both refer to a psalmist or cantor singing the verses of the Responsorial Psalm - in contrast to the Alleluia where they both refer to the cantor or choir singing the verse. I personally don't see anything terriby wrong with having the choir sing the Responsorial Psalm verses, but it seems that according to the letter of the law, your critics may have something there.
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    If the psalm verses are to be sung only by an individual cantor, then my parish has been doing it wrong for 45 years. I fail to see the logic in such a restriction and believe it is the norm simply because of habit and/or the absence of a capable choir. Your critics are reading too much into the wording of these documents.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Unless we insist upon following all documents to the letter in every case, we are no better than those who say that the "spirit of Vatican II" allows all sorts of things. The GIRM is very clear. The verses are sung by A CANTOR. Period.

    Just saying.
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    No thinking theologian would attribute the GIRM such an infallible status, particularly when it involves a reading of questionable literalism. And may I add that the advancement of good liturgical music depends a lot more than observing the letter of the law.

    Pairing this particular question regarding cantor or choir with "Spirit of Vatican II" abuses is nonsense.
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    PaixGioiaAmor,

    My apologies for the unduly harsh "nonsense." I had just finished a phone conversation with a priest regarding a funeral director's insistence that I program "In the Garden" and "The Old Rugged Cross" for a Catholic funeral being held tomorrow. It left me a bit edgy.

    That particular situation does underscore my point however about Church directives. Except for the types who read websites like MusicaSacra they are generally ignored. When guidelines are ignored your only option is to convert people through the experience of their hearing well-chosen and performed liturgical selections. It is the experience rather than the "letter of the law," even when logical, that wins the day.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I wish I could say with confidence that "The GIRM is very clear" about something!

    While the GIRM tells the cantor to sing the verses, and it tells the people to sing the response, it does not go out of its way to forbid the people to sing the verses, so it is not obvious that the Church intended to forbid that.

    Considering the variety of forms that are expressly licit (regular responsorial psalm, seasonal responsorial psalm, psalm presented ''in modo directo" without a response, Gradual chant from the Roman Gradual, or a responsorial or alleluiatic psalm from the Simple Gradual), it's hard to say that the Church has one and only one thing in mind.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I'd suggest that the GIRM is not clear and that it is saying that the CONGREGATION should not sing the verses, but that these they recommend be sung by the cantor [or choir in the few Masses that have such a thing]. Remember, in many parishes there are 28 or more Masses offered each week, so we cannot take the GIRM as restricting the choir in the one out of 28 Masses. And, in a schola it is common for more than one singer to sing the verse, but the schola itself sings the antiphon.

    This is yet another case of the documents not being consistent, much less clear.

    It appears that the indication is that, if this applies to a Mass with choir, that the choir sings the Antiphon to assist the congregation in singing it, so fewer singers, as few as one, sing the verse.

    Also, I recall that it is recommended that the psalmist sing the psalm verse and a different singer, the Alleluia verse. Which makes sense if they take their work seriously, study thoroughly the text they are singing (rather than jotting down the page number in R&A) AND you have two singers available.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    GIRM

    61. Post primam lectionem sequitur psalmus responsorius, qui est pars integralis
    liturgiæ verbi et magnum momentum liturgicum et pastorale præ se fert,
    cum verbi Dei meditationem foveat.
    Psalmus responsorius unicuique lectioni respondeat et e lectionario de more
    sumatur.
    Præstat psalmum responsorium cantu proferri, saltem ad populi responsum
    quod attinet. Psalmista proinde, seu cantor psalmi, in ambone vel alio loco apto
    profert versus psalmi, tota congregatione sedente et auscultante, immo de
    more per responsum participante, nisi psalmus modo directo, idest sine responso,
    proferatur. Ut autem populus responsum psalmodicum facilius proferre valeat,
    textus aliqui responsorum et psalmorum pro diversis temporibus anni aut
    pro diversis ordinibus Sanctorum selecti sunt, qui adhiberi valent, loco textus
    lectioni respondentis, quoties psalmus cantu profertur. Si psalmus cani non
    potest, recitatur modo aptiore ad meditationem verbi Dei fovendam.
    Loco psalmi in lectionario assignati cani potest etiam vel responsorium graduale
    e Graduali romano, vel psalmus responsorius aut alleluiaticus e Graduali
    simplici, sicut in his libris describuntur.
    Acclamatio ante lectionem Evangelii
    62. Post lectionem, quæ immediate Evangelium præcedit, canitur Allelúia
    vel alius cantus a rubricis statutus, prouti tempus liturgicum postulat. Huiusmodi
    acclamatio ritum seu actum per se stantem constituit, quo fidelium coetus
    Dominum sibi in Evangelio locuturum excipit atque salutat fidemque suam cantu
    profitetur. Cantatur ab omnibus stantibus, schola vel cantore præeunte, et si
    casus fert, repetitur; versus vero a schola vel a cantore canitur.
    a) Allelúia cantatur omni tempore extra Quadragesimam. Versus sumuntur
    e lectionario vel e Graduali.
    b) Tempore Quadragesimæ, loco Allelúia cantatur versus ante Evangelium
    in lectionario exhibitus. Cani etiam potest alius psalmus seu tractus, prout invenitur
    in Graduali.
    63. Quando una tantum habetur lectio ante Evangelium:
    a) tempore quo dicendum est Allelúia, haberi potest aut psalmus alleluiaticus,
    aut psalmus et Allelúia cum suo versu;
    b) tempore quo Allelúia non est dicendum, haberi potest aut psalmus et
    versus ante Evangelium aut psalmus tantum;
    c) Allelúia vel versus ante Evangelium, si non cantantur, omitti possunt.
    64. Sequentia, quæ præter quam diebus Paschæ et Pentecostes, est ad libitum,
    cantatur ante Allelúia.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 537
    In my weekly high school masses we do the psalm--a capella--with congregation singing the antiphon, and the choir (25 girls) chanting the verses. Often the verses are sung in parts, sometimes in unison. It depends on available practice time. Have you seen the harmonizations from St. Meinrad of their psalm tones? They are gorgeous.

    The response we've gotten from this practice is the rapt attention of the congregation to the verses, as most of the students are not accustomed to hearing the psalms proclaimed in this manner.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    The same is in the WLP arrangement. I would find it surprising if a choir was not allowed to sing the verses (however, one never knows exactly what is good, bad, legal or illicit this day and age)

    Noel

    Slavishely accurate translation please?
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 420
    I put that in Google Translate just for fun and this came out:

    "Loco psalmi in lectionario assignati cani potest etiam vel responsorium graduale"

    =

    "In place of the psalms in the Lectionary is gray hairs can also be assigned to the responsory or gradual"
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    So, wait, only the elderly can sing the gradual in place of the responsorial psalm? What about the elderly who dye their hair?

    I'm confused.... ;)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    No... It is most definitely a reference to all the music directors who have suffered under the anxiety of wondering how the hell we were supposed to know and execute the proper function of our bloody office in the roman rite for the past forty years as we wandered around in the liturgical desert.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    The translation doesn't matter since the official translation is what we have to go by. But the Latin permits us to examine and see what the actual word is to make sure that the translation reflects the character of the original.

    tota congregatione sedente et auscultante,

    the whole congregation sits and listens
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Behind this is the theory that the psalm is one of the lessons, and therefore is to be delivered as the other lessons are, with the people listening; the refrains sung by the people are, as one respondent told me, "to give the people something to do."
  • SamuelDorlaque
    Posts: 318
    At our parish, for all masses with choir the cantor sings the first verse of each set and the choir answers with the second verse. We even do this with the Children. On special feasts we might even have the choir sing a faux bourdon
    setting of the "even-numbered" verses.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    Dr. Mahrt. That is what I read into it also. That is also what bothers me (sell, at least one thing) about the whole "Responsorial Psalm" verse Gradual question. The Psalms were written as songs, and they are the "hymns of the Church". That is why they are used so extensively in the Offices, and almost exclusively in the Mass. As "songs", it would seem there is latitude for who is intended to sing them. The Gradual was evidently always listened to - no problem. But I seem to recall over the last 50 years the guidelines going first one way and then the other - the Psalm is NOT a reading (sing it somewhere else); the Psalm IS the 4th Reading (sing it from the Ambo like all the rest). I think even the GIRM (English) has gone back and forth, and we're not allowed to follow the original Latin version! I've grown very tired of this particular argument, especially since no one in power will either think it through logically or consider centuries of tradition. All I know for sure is that I am so blessed to be playing the organ for weekly EF Mass, even if only Low Mass with hymns.
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