It's their church. (NOW a MUST READ BISHOP's LETTER)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I just received a magazine from a Catholic music organization and skimmed through a number of articles, including one by a lay woman who directly challenged Benedict, a cardinal and a priest over Ad Orientem, tying this all in to her daughter giving birth?

    There were some learned articles but what I learned from them had nothing to do with what they were writing about.

    Instead I learned that it is THEIR church and not the church of Benedict. And they intend to keep their hold on it since they own it.

    I also read an ad by OCP in which they claim that 4 out of 5 US Catholics no longer attend Mass and OCP is in 2/3rds of the US churches and if you want to bring these people back to Mass you need to buy their books and music. I fail to understand the logic. They are in a majority of Catholic churches. So they are suggesting that the final 1/3 of churches join them and this will bring 4 out of 5 Catholics back to Mass in the US?

    Increasingly shrill and brash? Me?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Link to article about church in Madison, WI - assigned three orthodox priests and giving is down - may have to close school.

    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_1b804b84-e86b-11df-9abf-001cc4c03286.html

    "Fay Stone, a 25-year St. Mary's member, said the priests' decision-making approach seems heavy handed to her. While the Catholic church is not a democracy, some degree of collaboration with parishioners would be nice, she said.

    "I know they probably have church law on their side, but just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do," she said.
    People are leaving and taking their money with them, she said."
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    "I also read an ad by OCP in which they claim that 4 out of 5 US Catholics no longer attend Mass and OCP is in 2/3rds of the US churches and if you want to bring these people back to Mass you need to buy their books and music."

    Pretty shoddy logic. It seems to me to suggest that NOT using their books will help return some of the 1/5 of Catholics to church. However, we must also acknowledge that non-musical factors come into play here as well (poor teaching, etc.). Finally, we have to admit that many Catholics have made a direct decision not to be part of the Church regardless of proper teaching on the part of catechists, good music, etc. So, it is not just the music and liturgy. And there are those of us, myself included, who have made a decision to remain in the Church in spite of one or more of the above. And my introductory knowledge of the Church's musical literature comes primarily from----gasp----the public schools. And a Baptist choir teacher at that, too.

    But, as I have not seen the OCP ad, I must accept your word for it----if it is as you have stated, then OCP fails basic logic class.

    "Instead I learned that it is THEIR church and not the church of Benedict."

    WRONG. It is the Church of Jesus Christ, not ours. It is the responsibility of the Magisterium to maintain it's worship (and doctrine) in dignity (and truth) until the Lord in His awesome Majesty shall come once more to judge the living and the dead.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    For sure! Great answer Paul-named-for-a-favorite-instrument.

    Years ago I studied piano in NYC with Viola Lang.
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    Here's the full text of Bishop Morlino's letter, which was selectively quoted the article above.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Thanks - I am changing the title.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 835
    Thanks for the link, Aristotle. You've got a great bishop!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    This is amazing. I'll pray for those brave priests and the wonderful Bishop Morlino who stood up for them who were persecuted by the ingnorant. His letter is very enlightening. I hope people who read the letter open their hearts and listen to the truths spoken to them.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    I read the letter, especially the appendix, with great interest. I couldn't help but be reminded of Jay Leno's comedy segment, "What did you think was going to happen?"
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    In too many diocese, a letter would have been sent to the priests, who would be told exactly the opposite.

    There are diocese in which priests are only able to say Mass Ad Orientem in secret.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I'm sending this to my homeschooling group. Yes the appendix has extremely important information that all the Catholics must know. After Vatican II many Catholics are still very confused about the Mass. I wish we have more bishops like him who educate us and lead us with true charity and knowledge on the liturgy, heart of our faith .
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    Daniel,

    My cup runneth over. Would that more of us in this diocese come to realize the gem of a bishop that we have. Regularly portrayed negatively by the local press, he is actually one of the gentlest, humblest, and genuinely joyful prelates I have had the opportunity to meet. Of course he has faults — he is the first to admit them — but he genuinely makes the effort to be faithful.

    It's a shame that the itchy ears in our congregations would give the local media a pass and basically leave Bp. Morlino alone to face the wolves; in this way the Diocese of Madison is no different from most others. There is a small but growing number of laypeople who "get it" and rally to his defense however, speaking the truth in charity (which is a hard thing to do, and a task at which I've often failed in person, on my own blog, and my FB wall).

    I worked briefly with one of the society's priests at a former parish assignment of his, and was at a daylong retreat led by another society priest, and based on my experience, these guys are gems. Extremely pastoral, level-headed, charitable, and thoroughly orthodox. This doesn't mean they are perfect — who is? — but they at least strive for holiness.

    My pastor's homily tied today's first reading with the situation in Platteville. The question posed was: How did we get from these seven brothers — who would rather die than eat pork — to today, where the word "orthodox" is hurled around as an epithet?

    How indeed?…
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    There is an overwhelming lack of response from the good people in Catholic churches when the bad people raise up their ugly heads. I could understand this back when pastors ruled with an iron hand, but today it does not make sense.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    FNJ,
    That's what I told my parents just after Vat. II. They more than we had just had the carpet pulled from under them with all these changes. They said that they had fought all their fights just getting the three of us through school, and didn't have any fight left in them. But the deeper problem is that most GOOD Catholics simply do what they're told. If the priests says, from the pulpit, "This is your last Latin Mass. We'll have something in the pews for you in English next week." that is taken as pure Gospel! It has always been the dissenters who have built up the power underground, and then are not afraid to speak out to get their way. The times are changing, though. More and more conservative Catholics ARE speaking up, and many putting money where their mouth is.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Aristotle, no surprise about the treatment of +Morlino. The same thing could be said about Abp. Burke: in St. Louis, I am constantly amazed at how he is vilified, even by people whom one would think would be his supporters. Meeting him in person, though, one is touched by his humility, docility, kindness, and sense of humor. There was also the sense that as you were speaking, he was listening intently to all you were saying as if you were the most important person in the world. I can only think this treatment of bishops striving to do what is best is an unpleasant byproduct of the media culture we live in: people aren't interested in anything other than soundbytes.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    People don't want to hear truths will feel unconfortible with those who speak truths and criticise them as 'uncharitible'. No one is perfect, that doesn't mean we stop speaking and listening to truths. Those who criticise them as 'uncharitible' are the ones who actually judge others personally, and not seeing the stick in their eyes, not the ones who speack objective truths. We live in such a confusing world. People who speak only half truth, not the whole truth and often times go back and forth, are good enough as long as they speak with elelgant and frienldy manner.

    This following is a good article that's related to this.

    http://blog.adw.org/2010/10/holiness-is-more-than-being-nice/

    "Too many Christians have substituted niceness for holiness"
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    This is very sad.

    image

    The queen of spain refused to kneel and accept communion on the tongue.

    Lower Case intentional.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    It is obvious that she does not believe she is receiving the actual Body of Christ. How sad. Her predecessors were so devout!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Is everyone else in the picture kneeling?
    Or is Her Majesty exceptionally tall?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    So we should not be surprised when we hear the official hymn of WYD in spain?

    http://www.madrid11.com/en
  • newmanbenewmanbe
    Posts: 76
    Mr. Wood

    During a parochial school Mass, I was excited when I noticed the grade one students kneeling, until I realized that they were simply short!
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    She was up on a platform with her husband, because it's an ancient privilege of the Spanish monarchs to have Communion brought to their seating area.

    We ran over this yesterday at Father Z's. Those who saw the complete footage basically seem to think that she got confused and awkwardly did the wrong thing, especially since the cameras were rolling hard but Spanish media never film the royal family receiving Communion on grounds that it's an intimate moment. She knelt before the Pope to receive his blessing later, so it's not like she has anything against kneeling. And nobody in the royal family wore their mantillas, because the protocol for this visit was that all of them wear modern business dress. They wear mantillas with gowns and such. Nobody non-Spanish seems to know why it was modern-dress-only, but it probably was some political statement by the Spanish government that they had to go along with. That alone may have made the poor queen feel awkward.

    She became the focus of all eyes because the king didn't receive Communion. Apparently he's notoriously the type to decide in the middle of Mass that he's not in a state of grace or a suitable frame of mind, and he even refrained from receiving at his father's funeral until he could hurriedly go to Confession right afterward. Which is meritorious, obviously, but also a bit hard on the queen's focus.

    I wish we'd reserve anger for people who are actively trying to torque off the Holy Father, instead of attacking little old ladies who might not be perfectly perfect.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    The queen of a major Catholic country does not kneel for communion as you and I are expected to. That's what this is about, not attacking little old ladies.

    I'm a little confused. The rule is well known that you kneel for communion with the holy father. No one bothered to tell her? Her lady in waiting whatever failed to say, "kneel"?

    It's not anger, it is disappointment. People know when they meet Queen Elizabeth not to talk to her until she speaks to you and women are to curtsy. People who fail to do so, such as my friend Debbie Banfield who walked up to Prince Philip and grabbed his hand and shook it saying, "HI, I'm Debbie Banfield from America!" was not executed.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Americans do have to make that choice of deferring to local custom or retaining our insistence of not recognizing aristocracy through ritual groveling. If the queen was truly confused, I offer my apology, but it does stretch believability a bit. I have a fondness for Spain, but not for the Bourbons.
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