Straight Tone?
  • How many of you develop your choirs or scholas to sing in straight tone? Is this something worth working towards? I've never devoted rehearsal time to this before, only towards getting rid of excessive vibrato.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Aren't all choirs kind of expected to sing this way for the most part?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,509
    From the first lesson I teach children to sing chant "straight as an arrow" (make straight arm gesture). I prefer chanting to sound completely unified. Hymns, anthems and such can be a little more soloistic, for my taste.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    While I prefer a straight tone or minimized vibrato on a lot of the music I conduct in church, not everybody knows how to do it well. To make a huge generalization, I find amateurs naturally sing with a straighter tone in a "do no harm" kind of way, as do really experienced professionals who have developed a healthy technique for it. It's the young professionals that many of us end up with (if we're lucky enough to have pros) - those undergraduate voice majors - who have trouble knowing how to really be a pro/core singer without using their vibrato. Or how to do it in a healthy way if they do.

    Also, I think making sure singers' vowels are truly matched does just as much for unity of sound as eliminating vibrato - and when you are not able to do one, the other can go a long way. Obviously, it would be ideal to do both.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    O jeesh... don't get me started on vibrato... I am going to develop a tool called a vibratoextractor. Pushing vibrato for many is about being heard... when one looses him/her self into the sonority of a single sound, that is when true harmonics begin to appear. [A group that does this well (and although I wouldn't model sacred music after them) is the Dale Warland singers]. I always tell my choristers that if they can hear themself then they are singing too loud. You must congeal into the mix. A little vibrato doesn't hurt here and there, but when you have a straight tone choir and that single soloist is riding the wave of the sound, that is when I want the extractor.

    I find that children on the other hand, are natural blenders. The trick with them is getting pitch. I think one of my favorite choirs of all time is the Rundfunkchor of Berlin. You can hear a lot of their stuff on grooveshark if you can't afford their recordings.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Vibrato is a natural part of the voice. That being said, a 1950s Presbyterian choir with huge vibrato would sound strange to our ears. There are increments between King's College Cambridge and the chorus at La Scala. Brahms with a "straight" tone sounds weird to me. Palestrina with vibrato likewise sounds odd. It's being judicious and musical about such matters rather than laying down black and white rules.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Mark, I agree. It's a stylistic decision, not a dogmatic one.
  • A healthy vibrato is usually understood to be an oscillation at pitch that moves at a certain rate, namely between 6 and 7 undulations per second as documented by Richard Miller. This assumes the singer posesses a healthy, tension -free technique. If the singer's sustained tone wobbles up and down between different pitches ("wide vibrato") then this is not vibrato, but the result of a lack of proper support or coordination. The oscillation rate will be slower and the intonation will be flat. Conductors can minimize this difficulty by paying close attention to vowel uniformity and making sure the singers are singing without tension and press. Often the wobbling is caused by over-singing, and merely reducing the dynamic will reduce or eliminate the problem. At times I will assign "custom dynamics" for particular individuals that differ from the rest of the ensemble to mitigate this challenge.
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  • Without mentioning straight tone to volunteer singers, I just try to concentrate on agreement of pure vowel sounds,
    good breathing habits, listening and blending in tune with the ensemble.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    There are increments between King's College Cambridge and the chorus at La Scala.

    Quite right, Mark, and a number of variables come into play. It’s partly, as Doug suggests, a stylistic issue. Granted the constraints of utility, taste and considerations of appropriateness vary from culture to culture. It’s also a matter of architecture and vocal maturity. The difference between the Kings and Westminster Cathedral sounds are a case in point. The straight sound of Kings works well in the Chapel, but it would be overwhelmed by Westminster’s space and acoustic. So, too, consider the men. Those at Kings are undergraduates, some of them only 18 or 19 years old. Westminster, on the other hand, employs professional lay clerks, men who have typically been through a conservatoire on a singing course.

    This has a bearing on PaixGioiaAmor’s original question. A traditional barn of a church will likely benefit from a more robust sound – including controlled vibrato – than a small, modern building, and effective vibrato requires training and experience that the average parish choir isn’t likely to have.
  • Straight tone just sounds better in most sacred music. I'm not sure that, historically, it was an ideal...consider phenomena like folks layclerking for 50 years, or the voce da chiesa vs. voce da camera distinction. Particularly in the upper register, an absolutely straight tone can sound "tubular". You can overcontrol. What you DON'T want is the "church lady wobble". I once wrote an English Nunc Dimmittis for a choir with rancid-toned sopranos. I kept them out until "to be a light" and for "Glory be" until "as it was". And I divided them
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I agree it is a matter of the musical style being sought. For those who believe all choral music should be sung with "no" vibrato, there is likely as much eduation that person needs about musical syles as they do about vocal technique. That being said, if one assumes the style under discussion hear is chant and Renaissance polyphony, I feel that music demands less vibrato - even straight tone, if it is produced in a healthy manner.

    Discussing this topic without actually hearing examples is dangerous.
  • David Pedersen's comments are spot-on and healthy from a pedagogical view. I use similar fixes with vowel uniformity and dynamics.
    Many, many directors harm or ruin voices because they force strait tone without knowing how to help singers produce a healthy minimal vibrato.
    When directors can't distinguish between a wobble and normal vibrato, it's a red flag that they need rudimentary knowledge of how the voice works.

    This is further evidence that singer directors are needed and undervalued.

    Many directors seek for a 'pure straight tone' and damage the voices entrusted to them.
    We directors need to know principles of healthy singing and solid pedagogy before imposing any particular stylistic preference on singers. Straight tone and healthy singing are not necessarily at odds, but we need to know what we're doing, and not only act out of blind preference based on our favorite recordings.
    I know this sounds stern, but we must remember that we are custodians of other people's God-given instruments-
    and tread carefully.
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  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Yes, an important point to remember in going after the sound you want is not simply how this music should sound, but how should it sound with the resources you've got (i.e. singers, instrumentalists, building, acoustic, rehearsal time, etc.).
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    SkirpR is right to observe the difficulty of discussing this topic without the benefit of examples. This one is by Nick Gale's gentlemen at Southwark Note the sense of line, and the the richness of tone (part of which is down to a controlled vibrato), which suits Southwark's acoustic admirably.

    On the other hand, it's not exactly the parish schola that we're actually discussing here.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    can anyone elaborate on healthy straight-tone singing technique, vs. unhealthy?

    my voice coach is always telling me to go for more vibrato, and I'm not used to it because I haven't done solo stuff before this, just choral music, 4-part hymns, and chant. I want to know if my straight-tone is unhealthy or not...?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Jam

    Here is one link I found. I do not claim that it is all true, so be careful what you read and what you employ.

    http://www.voiceteacher.com/vibrato.html
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    When I was in my forties, my straight-tone, no-technique-way-of-singing wasn't working for me anymore. I was singing flat. A voice professor from UCLA fixed me up with a consistent vibrato (particularly through the tiresome B-natural, B-flat range--I'm a baritone). So, you can turn the vibrato on (Jewish High Holidays) or you can turn it down (Palestrina, Tallis, Byrd).

    I love the quote from my voice teacher during my first lesson: "You have a beautiful voice but you sing like a pig." She got rid of the porcine characteristic.
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,481
    Sing like a pig? We should get together- my voice teachers all told me I sing like Kermit the Frog.

    My wife told me tonight that I'm sounding less like Kermit than I did when we were teenagers, so I guess that's probably important.
  • Thank you for all of your very helpful comments.

    I have always tried to get rid of vibrato when dealing with choirs, but I never thought of it as "straight tone." I just thought of it as too much vibrato not being good for choral singing in general. I was just wondering if you considered THAT to be straight tone, or if it was the COMPLETE ridding of ANY vibrato like quality whatsoever.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    I think the consensus kind of coalesced around keeping vibrato to a minimum--rather than eliminating it altogher--along with working with what you've got. I don't think eliminating vibrato is healthy in mature voices (children are another matter). Maybe others have a different take on things.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    It's a matter of degree. And the acoustical issue is as salient as the period/style of the music being sung.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    I agree with the amount of vibrato found in my posts on the Dale Warland Singers and on the Rundfunkchor of Berlin. Go listen.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Francis,

    I also think those recordings are beautiful - but precisely because the vibrato used (or rather, not used) in them is perfect for those groups in rooms in which they did the recordings. So I guess I do "agree" with it for those groups, but your singers and your church may require something else.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    SkirpR

    A 'dead acoustic' or 'pro verses amateur status' does not change the parameters surrounding the foundation for performing well executed sacred music. Sacred music demands that a schola or a choir achieves a homogeneous blend. Period. That has nothing to do with the environment around them OR the expertise of the individual members. I will also go so far as to agree with my colleagues here when they say that different 'styles' of music demand more or less vibrato. That is because there is confusion in the ranks about which composers belong to the category of the sacred music 'style'. That is simply because the likes of Mozart and Beethoven do not. It is a well known fact that neither of them were admirable models to the realm of Roman Catholic sacred music. They were mainly composers of entertainment and/or virtuosic (showy or acrobatic) musical feats. Haydn less so, but is still a borderline to the observation.

    What has been entirely lost about the art of sacred music composition is what occurs in the relationship of concurring polyphonic voices both in the intervalic relationships over a given amount of time which is bound up in the mastery of creating dissonance and consonance, suspension and resolution (both in the prelude and postlude of musical phraseology) that elicit the desired and proper spiritual effects. Although the Classical composers mentioned above were straddling the two worlds of secular and sacred, the Romantic composers for the most part, abandoned that foundation of composition in favor of the 'show' factor and emotional appeal. To put it bluntly, from a spiritual music to a fleshly music.

    When I came to my most recent position, the 'blend' did not exist. Most of the reason for this was because they were 'singing tunes' and not producing spiritual music. It took them about two years to "discover the ethos". That only occurs from losing the sense of self, and becoming one with the communal sound of 'the choir'.

    Harmonics can only 'appear' after a measured moment of time when the choral blend has been achieved. If too much vibrato is introduced, the harmonics will never materialize.

    I can most likely find for you recordings of the Dale Warland singers which they made in a recording studio, which has NO acoustics at all. The amount of vibrato is exactly the same. They (and their director) understood the finesse of creating excellent choral sonorities. What is more important than vibrato (by tenfold) are those very harmonics produced by straight-tone, or as I prefer to call it, choral-tone singing. I reject the concept of straight-tone because then everyone seems to argue about the point of how much or how little vibrato belongs where and when. Well, to me, that is nonsense. Vocal harmonics can occur in a vaccuum or in the reverberant ambiance of the Notre Dame Cathedral. Neither environment makes the difference. Choral-tone singing is the natural blend of voices found when individual egos are set at bay, and made to become part of the whole. Ego is very much tied up in the "rooster crow" of excessive vibrato. The concern is that "I am being heard" rather than the "we that is being heard". This also applies to the crooning cantors found hogging microphones.

    The rise in operatic style has muddied the waters significantly, and is a cloaked assault on the nature of sacred music, without saying so. Part of the battle of winning the Church back to her sacred music roots is based in this highly misunderstood, but very important rule of thumb.

    quia omnis qui se exaltat humiliabitur et qui se humiliat exaltabitur

    And now I will add to this comment the fact that a dead acoustic environment in church architecture is contrary to the very nature of church architecture and to sacred music, (especially in the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox and perhaps Greek Orthodox traditions) and also destroys the 'true focus' of the liturgy. Putting choirs low in the sanctuary in front of the congregation is about as bad a mistake as the erroneous practice of putting Communion in the hand. Just because you can doesn't mean it is favorable. Here is an extreme comparison. (e.g., Satanists will glady take the host in their hand and run off to desecrate Jesus in their black masses... but will never receive Jesus on the tongue. In contrast, observe those that do.)

    (for Charles.... hoot... hoot...)
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I was not advocating the use of vibrato in sacred music, nor did I even come close to even insinuating that church building acoustics *should* be dead (however some unfortunately are).

    I'm simply suggesting that not every choir is capable of sounding like your examples and that one must balance the ideal with practicality, especially with a physical issue like vibrato.

    I can most likely find for you recordings of the Dale Warland singers which they made in a recording studio, which has NO acoustics at all. The amount of vibrato is exactly the same. They (and their director) understood the finesse of creating excellent choral sonorities.


    It certainly helps that they are all professional singers.

    As a professional choral conductor (who hopefully also understands the finesse of creating excellent choral sonorities), I will admit to observing that there may be an element of ego involved on the part of individual singers who employ excessive vibrato. When it continues over time after being addressed in a variety of ways, it does come across to me as an unwillingness to sacrifice some self for the good of the choir. I obviously don't know your specific situation, but I caution people from assuming this outright in every instance.

    And, if you want to hear an example of what I'm talking about, this is a from a concert I conducted earlier this month. Maybe it could have been straighter at times, but these were mostly undergraduates and we had other musical priorities. (And lest I offend anyone's liturgical sensibilities with this raucous display, it is the Kyrie from a "concert" Requiem by Pittsburgh composer Joseph Willcox Jenkins. The piano part is a reduction of what was originally scored for strings, harp, and horns.)
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    Francis,

    Some key points to consider: control; degree; acoustic; culture. Vibrato is not a single thing to be labelled good or bad. It can be controlled, uncontrolled or somewhere on the spectrum between the two, according to training and experience. It can vary in degree according to the size and acoustic of the building - assuming control, a richer, focused sound will carry better in a large church than a straight, off-the voice sound, while a small church will call for greater reserve. And one culture's rich, focused sound will be another's distraction (conpare, for example, the Russian Orthodox and the Anglicans).
  • SkirpR, nice piece! I don't think it would be inappropriate for liturgy. As for vibrato, yes, it's more than my ideal, but there's a good blend of well-produced voices, and it's really not obtrusive at all.
  • Skip - BEAUTIFUL, vibrato or not! Bravo! The blend IS wonderful.
  • OK, everyone, so WHEN you are going for a "straighter" tone, HOW do you achieve it with amateurs?

    Someone already mentioned more breath control, and a few people mentioned pure vowels/uniform vowels. What other techniques can a conductor use to help amateurs control vibrato and learn to do it the CORRECT and HEALTHY way, as a couple people cautioned is important?
  • What other techniques can a conductor use to help amateurs control vibrato


    I'm surprised that so many people seem to be running into this problem. Do you find a lot of amateurs that know how to sing with vibrato at all, even if it's a poorly executed one with lots of wobble? Just from my own experience, I would have guessed that it'd be the -achieving- of vibrato that would take some coaxing for amateurs like me.
  • david pedersen sung a reading at the colloquium this year, and it was magnificent. his voice is superb and his diction clear.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    SkirpR

    Nice job! Excellent performance.

    The vibrato is not offensive (to me) in this performance but here is my reflection on the work itself and a bit about the performance (after hearing it two time through).

    It kind of lilts along and most of my attention goes to the piano and the voice seems to embelish the piano part... This is mainly because of the percussive nature of the instrument. I find myself wanting to hear it the other way around... I think the strings would make a huge dif. Another way to perform this would be with an 8' flute on the organ, do you think? (I don't really like using string stops with the choir as I find that the celeste competes with the choral sonority.) You were probably in a concert hall or a smaller less live space (at least I am guessing that is what it is from the acoustic).

    As for the writing, it's a nice piece. It really is a concert piece. I personally would never program this for liturgical use (because of the pauses in the vocal parts), but that is not the issue we are discussing here.

    The final Kyrie is gorgeous! I personally wanted to hear more of the choir when I heard that! To me, they found the ethos in their choral sound right there. If that is what you have to work with, you are quite lucky and blessed! What is the name of your ensemble?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Hi Ian

    Control is a big one. Some choristers in church choirs are beyond reach. But when you finally have control, yes. Degree of what? Acoustic… The lack of acoustic (and I am speaking of RC liturgical music (GC and polyphony and those that continue composing in that vein or tradition) is a great hinderance to the continuity of our music tradition. As you can see, I am not labeling vibrato bad. I am labeling EGO as the culprit in "bad" or undesirable vibrato. (listen to the immense vibrato in Dale Warland's interpretation of Barber's Agnus when the solo soprano hits the reach 1:30) It's OK, but then listen to the same piece by King's College. I would wager the woman in Warlands interpretation lacks the control that the soprano has in the King's Choir rendition. I like both, however. So, vibrato isn't bad, except when it is excessive.

    Vibrato in a dead acoustic will be very obvious. A live acoustic helps to cover a lot of 'sins' so to speak and can help the blend immensely. I agree with you on size of church, but I wish I had choirs that were too big for a church that I had to tone down. I am always scraping to get more voices just to fill the space.

    Not sure I understand your point about culture rich… are there two recordings that you can demonstrate to hear the comparison you are pointing to?
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    I have found that if you tell singers who cherish their vibrato not to sing with vibrato, they tend to think that this will be unnatural and they sing in an unnatural fashion. I have found that in addition to matching vowels a good exercise is tuning, particularly in perfect intervals. I have them sing an octave in parallel fifths on a succession of vowels. In the effort to tune well, they achieve an amelioration of the vibrato without necessarily suppressing it entirely. It seems to me that the principal reason for "straight tone" is tuning, though timbre and clarity are important also, so if this is achieved, then there need be no mention of straight tone.

    Concerning Westminster Cathedral, it was better under James O'Donnell; now the adult men are not being controlled, and they are singing with more vibrato that they used to do, with the effect that the men's parts in polyphony are a bit muddy. It goes without saying that in that enormous church, they have to sing quite loudly, still, the issue there is the control of vibrato, not necessarily its elimination.
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  • @mahrt: well said.