Poll on Good Friday response
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    For those of you who chant the simplified "This is the wood..." in English: is "us worship" a descending third or do your PIPs sing it step-wise?

    (Save the Liturgy Save the World)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I can't reproduce the notes here, but it's treble staff B, A B, G G where the a and b are eighth notes and the remaining notes quarters.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I should have mentioned that we sing it 3 times, each time taking the pitch of the priest - whatever that may be. He usually ascends by thirds each time.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Ours, who is functionally tone deaf, sang it [sol]This [la]is [do]the wood of the Cross, on which hung the Savior [ti]of [do]the [la]worrrr [sol]lllld. So we replied in much the same way, but with less "rrrrrrr." I think he may have done this because the last thing we sang before he went out was the Gospel Acclamation, which has a mode VIII verse.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    I attempted to lead the congregation in doing it as written - B A B G G - but it sounded like 80% of the people sang it as B A B A G. Didn't sound great. 3 times.
  • AOZ
    Posts: 369
    Ours did what Carl's did. It was fine. Our pastor did roughly what Charles W's did. Got pretty high for the congregation by the third repetition! But you know what, they sang as best they could. Goes to show that the PIPs will pretty go along with the model the set by the celebrant. That's precisely why we need more priests singing the Mass...
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Sorry, forgot to add the qualifier that, in spite of celebrant's tone-deafness, he was at least willing to try, and his attempt was worthy of the solemnity of the occasion; and he even gave the Easter dismissal the Old College Try. He mangled it almost BBR (bodged beyond recognition), but the choir and congregation sang the response correctly, in Latin, both Saturday night and Sunday morning. Deo Gratias indeed!
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    I believe Carl D has pinpointed what G was trying to ask: did your congregation sing B A B G G (as it is notated in the Sacramentary) or B A B A G?

    Last year, I had the choir sing the Sacramentary version, but we had that whole step dissonance on the penultimate note when the congregation sang the latter version. I caved in this year and had the choir sing the "incorrect" version. Sounded great! : )

    I've noticed the corrupt version in most places that I've been to . . . what gives?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Possibly a mistake in the Sacramentary? When we did the priest training last year in Chicago, we were amazed at the number of errors in the printed music. People have complained about this for years.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Every resource had the third.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    Our parish has developed the "oral tradition" of singing it with the descending third rather than the two "G's" as it appears in the Sacramentary.

    This is most definitely not the ditch I'll die in, thank you.

    The four selected vigil readings out of seven, each proclaimed from a different "station" in the church is a better battle. (That's right, that's the way we do it at the parish where I'm DM, because, as I was told by the first-sacraments DRE who also sits on the liturgy committee and knows a lot about liturgy- just ask her- it "keeps the people engaged by physically showing how God moved through history." I just can't make this stuff up, ya know! We also do the Passion gospel on Good Friday from 4 "stations" to show how Jesus suffered at four different places.)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I meant to say that every resource available to the congregation had the third. That is, the Missalettes and the programs I made. Most of the congregation sang the step-wise motion. It's strange how disappointing a single note can be to us...
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    The OCP Worship book says

    Come Let Us Wor-ship
    G F G F Eb
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    Ah, OCP -- the Withywindle of Catholic music.
  • lupusgrex
    Posts: 6
    As previously written ... I caved and allowed to the choir to sing the "incorrect" ending, despite giving them the printed and incorrect "Sacramentary" version ... do we have a consensus yet on what is the "correct" ending?
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    According to the Sacramentary etc. it should be Ti La Ti Sol Sol rather than Ti La Ti La Sol.
  • G
    Posts: 1,401
    Hmmm... well, even if the falling 3rd is "correct," the other seems so ingrained I have decided to consider it Organic Development.

    (Save the Liturgy Save the World)
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,206
    I'm beginning to think this is the musical equivalent of the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" question.

    Really, with a short response like this I'd rather have the assem . . . *eh-hem* . . . congregation sing the wrong notes lustily than beat them into notationally correct submission.

    I agree with G on this one. I consider it to be the "customary" of our parish, as it's appeared in print with the incorrect notes in their service booklets for the Vigil for a number of years now.

    Come to think of it, as I hearken back to my first years as a DM in a Catholic church, I seem to recall a really bad but very popular setting of this versicle with the text "Behold, behold the wood of the Cross/ On which is hung our salvation" with the response of the congregation, "Come, let us a-do-ore," which was in a minor key, but still featured the descending, filled-in third. (I think it was from the St. Louis Jesuits, who have a lot to answer for, let me tell you).
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    My congregation and choir sang exactly what was on the missalette page, B A B G G. We don't use OCP materials and won't as long as I have life and breath. At the parochial school where I teach - no, I don't teach music - the music teacher uses the infamous "Behold, behold the wood..." during stations of the cross, and with some of the most badly played and over-blown recorders you could ever hear. I wear ear plugs when I attend the Lenten stations.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    CharlesW,

    next year you should secretly swap out their recorders for a chest of krummhorns. I'd love to see the pastor's face when the Racket starts up.

    Why? 'Cuz if you're going to do kazoo-worthy music, it might as well be played on the kaz . . . . I mean, the krummhorns.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    LOL.
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