Choir attire
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    There was a thread on this topic a couple of years ago, and the final answer came out about as clear as mud.

    If anyone knows definitive answers to any of these questions I would really appreciate it.

    1. Where is a cassock officially defined in authoritative documents? Is it specifically stated who may or may not wear it and for what purpose(s)?

    2. Can a cassock be worn without a surplice? It seems to be spoken of in terms of "cassock and surplice", yet my pastor wears a cassock without surplice around the church. I have seen others do this as well. Is this an informal use of the garment which was never really intended?

    3. Although STTL says that "cassock and surplice are not recommended" for choir director/schola/choir members, it stops short of banning us from wearing them. However, I can find no authoritative source for what is appropriate for choir attire. The GIRM says "alb or other lawfully approved" vesture. What is lawfully approved? Is it up to the pastor? The bishop?

    The background: My choir is getting robes. I was considering a cassock as their director. My pastor supports this, but I don't want to do it just because it is a "traditional" type thing to do, or because "the other really traditional church across town has their schola members wear cassocks". I want to do it because it is proper, supported by venerable tradition, and makes sense. I wasn't planning on wearing a surplice, and I've seen other directors wear cassocks without surplices. This leads me to the above question number 2.

    Thank you to anyone who can help.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Where will your choir be standing and will it be only men, women or mixed?

    I got the impression, through the mud, that it was alright for men to wear the cassock.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    We will be standing in the loft and it will be a mixed choir. The choir will be wearing deep blue choir robes (we are a Marian named church). I was considering wearing the cassock as their director.
  • theusiv
    Posts: 20
    Our schola is wearing a long white robe and a cape.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    There are, as you say, some semi-official admonitions and opinions to the effect that cassock and surplice are 'clerical attire' and are 'not recommended' to be worn by choirs or choirmasters. This is not, however, by any means a legislated matter. Cassock and surplice are, as a matter of fact, choir habit, and are quite appropriate for choirs, organists and choirmasters. If you decide on this habit you should always wear both garments 'in choir'. The only time the surplice is not worn liturgically is during the liturgies of Holy Week. When not 'in choir' or at a liturgy, the cassock is often worn by itself by clergy and others for whom it is appropriate garb. Cassock and surplice are the only truly liturgically appropriate and historic habit for choirs. The current fad for albs (which belong on acolytes in the sanctuary), a variety of monk-like robes sporting even cowls and scapulars, and even academic gowns with tacky seasonal stoles is an invention of the modern 'choir robe' industry.
  • Tournemire
    Posts: 74
    Amen, Jackson Osborn.

    I started a new job at a Cathedral a year ago, and DEO GRATIAS! When I arrived I was immensely thankful that prior to my appointment they purchased magenta cassocks with surplices.

    I am tired of this nonsense of wearing academic robes etc. I know there are those that will complain about the women wearing cassocks and surplices, but it still looks better than some of these ugly polyester albs or academic robes, and as you point out it is by no means a legislated matter.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Magenta, yet! How like unto a cathedral! At Our Lady of Walsingham our choir's cassocks are Mary blue.
    Congratulations on what sounds like an appointment with promise.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    One option for the ladies (and even the men, if the cassocks are not black) is for the collars to be rounded rather than square. That way they don't look like Roman collars that seem to be missing the little white piece.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    My mixed choir also wears blue cassocks and white surplices. I retired the old red and gold academic gowns. It is a considerable improvement in look and hides a multitude of clothing sins. Although I am also aware about the discussions on women in cassock and surplice.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Cassocks, though clerical, would seem to be preferable to immodest dress of many youth...male and female.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    From my experience, immodest dress isn't restricted to youth.
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