It could be worse: From a Presbyterian Church Today
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    WORDS OF INSTITUTION Pastor:
    Gifts of God for the people of God.
    People: Let us keep the feast.

    DISTRIBUTION
    Come forward using the center aisle, beginning with the front row. The white bread is made from wheat; darker bread in the center is gluten-free rice bread. The bronze chalices contain wine; the glass chalices contain grape juice. Hold out your hands and bread will be placed in your palm. For rice bread, please take it yourself, exercising care not to touch other pieces. You may eat the bread and move to the cup of wine to drink or dip your bread before eating, or move to the cup of juice and dip your bread, exercising care not to touch the liquid or cup with your fingers. Those unable to come forward will be served in their pews. If not communing, please remain in your pew in prayer.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If not communing, please remain in your pew in prayer.

    They've got something right! The Communion procession is for people receiving Holy Communion. 1 point for the Presbyterians!
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Y'know, Richard, there are a couple of ways to look at the issue of incommunicants processing versus remaining (in prayer?) in the pew. The errant way is that a priest, or God forbids but humans want to remain "nice," bestows a blessing and lays hands upon the incommunicant. OTOH, is there anything essentially incorrect if a person comes before the sacrament and bows deeply and with reverence before His presence and then moves on, hopefully to a confessional at the soonest opportunity?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    First, as Fr. Smolarski noted in his book How Not To Say Mass, the final blessing of the faithful follows almost immediately after the distribution of Holy Communion. If someone asks for an individual blessing during Holy Communion, then a proper understanding of the final blessing seems to be lacking.

    The practice Charles describes can lead to at least two immediate problems:

    (1) Non-communicants approach EMHCs, asking for a blessing; but EMHCs are not authorized by the Church to confer blessings on persons: the result is either embarrassment for the non-communicant, or the simulation of a priestly blessing.

    (2) The common gesture used for this situation (arms crossed on the chest) already has a customary meaning among some Eastern European Catholics and Byzantine-rite Catholics (are you Byzantine, or is that the other Charles?): it means "I am a communicant approaching for the Sacrament" -- the exact opposite of the newly invented meaning being imposed by well-meaning clergy. I have been denied Holy Communion because of this confusion.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I am the Byzantine Charles. When I have received communion in Latin churches, even the deacons have been confused if I approached in our customary manner, arms crossed on the chest. If I receive in a Latin church any more, I make sure beforehand that the priest/deacon/cleaning lady/whatever understands what I am doing. As a practical matter, when in a Latin church I am usually playing/conducting during the masses, so I don't receive at all.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I can top that, Noel. I once attended a famous "Emergent" (that is, post-modern theology, so different theological worldview from Evangelical) megachurch in Michigan. The Emergent movement puts a high emphasis on recovering ritual in worship - although they don't tend to use a structured liturgy exactly. There was harp music for a prelude, then a greeting, prayer, scripture reading, and sermon. Following that was a missions appeal, and then some announcements. All well and good, although not at all what I'm familiar with (and no hymns whatsoever). Even very good preaching.

    What followed was communion. That was the weird part. The rite consisted SOLELY of "And now we will have Eucharist, also known as Holy Communion or the Mass. Come up and get some bread and grape juice." No words of institution, no prayer, no narrative, no epiclesis, just exactly what I mentioned. I left when that started - I confess that I don't know exactly what I believe about communion, but it certainly isn't that!
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I sometimes have to carry my toddler while I go up for Communion, and the priest offers him a blessing. Personally, I don't see a problem with this.

    Is there really a slippery slope between that and, say, an adult candidate for first communion (or a member of "the Elect") receiving a priestly blessing while at Mass on vacation?

    Not trying to be controversial here, only trying to see what the logic is.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The Emergent movement puts a high emphasis on recovering ritual in worship


    I've hung around those people. They tend to frustrate themselves because they know they want to do ritual, but they can't for the life of them figure out how. And God-forbid they adopt the rituals of some backward, old-fogey church. Everything they do is either too-casual, or appears to be trying much too hard (or both). And they're hyper-sensitive to anyone becoming bored, so they won't ever commit to following through on a liturgical action- which makes it hundreds of times more boring.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Adam, have you checked out the wild Bible translation that the Emergent movement uses? Words to describe fail me...
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    A propos of Doug's question further back: let me turn it around. What is the logic *for* doing individual blessings during the distribution of Holy Communion?

    What are people really trying to get when they approach individually? What does it mean for them? And is that -- whatever it is -- really something the Church wants to do at that point in the liturgy?

    An adult candidate for first communion will probably understand, once it's pointed out, that he or she is going to receive a priestly blessing about two minutes after Holy Communion.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Gavin, maybe the Emergent folks could read the Didache and use the eucharistic prayer from that!
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Good point, Richard.

    I guess it just doesn't cause me any feelings of disgust in certain circumstances--not that that makes it OK. There are certainly many bad reasons for it, like making sure an entire wedding party moves in tandem, even if most are not Catholics!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Adam, have you checked out the wild Bible translation that the Emergent movement uses? Words to describe fail me...

    If you mean, "The Message" - oi vey!
    I've argued with my best friend for hours on this. Sure, it is potentially a handy tool. It might be an aide to understanding.
    But it isn't the Bible! A paraphrase is essentially different than a translation. (And, by the way, I think the creator of the Message would agree that that's the case).
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Yes, "The Message"! The title wasn't coming to me. It truly is mind-blowing.
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