Song for Dismissal of Catechumens?
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    The song we currently use for the dismissal of Catechumens is haugenhaastastic to the max.

    Do any of you have any suggestions for songs that are better? I don't think I could get them to sing Gregorian but I'm pretty sure I can get them to sing something more traditional or dignified.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Why sing.

    I've seen this done by the local broadway-singing-song-during-the-homily band of order priests who revel in mediocrity. They sing some sort of Barney song as far I can can see.

    There is no liturgical instruction, it is not a liturgical procession...

    These idiots also ask visitors to stand up and tell where they are from, sing happy birthday and turn the Mass into a....gameshow.

    And naturally, people like it. This church has visitors weekly from CharlesW and the Swan's church....maybe they can explain how this fits into the diocese between their parishes?

    [I feel better now...just insulted a bunch of Anglicans on their list, suggested they all become Baptist where every Sunday is EASTER! Even Easter is Easter...and so is Christmas, but I am not sure what is when it is NOT on Sunday....that plus a reference to the Cadbury Bunny and I was done.]
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    eh? When do they leave, after the liturgy of the word? You should chant this, howsabout (from the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom):

    All catechumens, depart. Depart, catechumens. All that are catechumens, depart. Let no catechumen remain. Let us, the faithful, again and again in peace pray unto the Lord.


    That's what they say in the Orthodox church after the Litany for the Catechumens, and a very lovely prayer on their behalf from the priest. Although most parishes nowadays don't actually send them out, they still say this; there's only a few that don't, and just have "the doors, the doors! Let us attend," before the Creed. (Hearkening back to the days when they'd secure the doors to make sure no uninitiated person could partake of or even witness the Divine Mysteries.)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Speaking, now that i can agree.

    Is there an ACLU for catechumens?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I concur with Noel. The whole Haas thing (which we've never done) and its subsequent metastisizing by other Big Three Tunesmiths was an LA Congress invention. Talk about elective plastic surgery which is invasive, has no other purpose but self-aggrandizement, and nominally for the benefit of folks, both catechumen/candidates and Joe/Mary Pewpods who are doubtless holding their breath wondering "Where the heck did all this come from?"
    If ever asked for such, I'll simply sing "Happy Trails."
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    Yes, we all know, der haugenhaasenschmaltz is terrible.

    Now, I need help here to think of something to replace what they're doing. I can't stop them from singing, but I think I can get them to sing something else. Any suggestions?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Yes. Move "THE PEACE" there, let everyone do their thing and then they leave as the people begin the Creed.


    Or, sing the Nunc! After all, they are the Gentiles at this point.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,094
    There's a Rodgers & Hammerstein tune that fits the occasion better than others, but seriously, it's not a liturgical procession and there should be no music for it.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Hmm, isn't the Nunc Dimittis better suited for either Vespers, Compline, or the post-communion prayers? Doing it at Mass right before communion would be odd... liturgically confused I think. Because technically even if they're Gentiles, they haven't seen the Lord yet (Eucharist).
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    my solution for those of us stuck in "blended" parishes was to take the forgettable song "go now in piece my friends". I then harmonized it for acapella choir using part writing unknown apparantly to the glory and praise crowd. makes it a lot more palatable.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    A few years ago, we had an associate priest who wanted music in this situation- we sang #225 in Ritualsong- by Lynn Trapp Not so bad if you can get priest to intone. The other choice is that old Natalie Sleeth canon- Go now in peace, which is appropriate for a children's choir perhaps.We haven't sung anything since he left, though. What's wrong with a little silence, anyway??
    I wish the Catachumens could stay through the preparation so they could hear what the Cathedral Choir sounds like and perhaps join up! LOLOL
    Donna
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Sorry, BGeorge...you're right and my comments were unnecessary. But I also agree with Liam's point that this movement is not a liturgical procession. Perhaps the celebrant could cantillate the blessing with the congregationally sung "amen." The transition to the Credo and GI's from the homily should be respected, save the occasions when RCIA folk undergo specific rites.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Nunc at Dismissal of Catechumens = Joke.

    The Catechumens do not leave, in the Roman Rit right before communion.

    It is best at Vespers but also can be an effective Communion Meditation.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Hey, best suggestion: Do what the GIRM says to do.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I concur that there should be no music. It seems that when music is scheduled for these spots, it does not "grow organically" out of the liturgy. On the contrary, it seems very contrived.

    If you had to do something, here's an idea (that is a real stretch, so don't throw the tomatoes too hard): how about have the choir chant a psalm? 150? The Talbot Anglican chant setting of Psalm 150 is a custom for some English cathedral choirs, so perhaps it might work. It does talk about drums and tambourines... Now, I know it's not in the least bit "Catholic", but I don't mind stirring the pot...
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Englert's Prayer for the Catechumens is simple and low key. (A big improvement over a zippy little number called "We are the Church" the parish used to use.)

    Save the Liturgy, Save the World
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Send out the children with a song and then neglect the catechumens?
    We cannot do that!
    I bet that is where this comes from (certainly not the GIRM).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I like Jam's idea. At least it's authentic to the Byzantine liturgy. ("The doors! The doors!") For a Western adaptation, maybe you could set it to Coronation:

    Let all the church's doors be closed,
    And catechumens leave;
    The Holy Mass goes on in peace
    For baptized who believe.

    ---

    But then, I never did like songs of liturgical instruction.

    (Note: the above is not serious.)
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    haha, chonak! of course my suggestion was a joke too. Without the preceding Litany for the Catechumens, it would sound weird. :/

    Noel: I agree that the Nunc Dimittis is a very good communion meditation. We usually say it in the post-communion prayers after church (during the veneration of the cross), but I could see how it would make sense during communion, too. Just not before.

    Out of curiosity, when in the Mass do the catechumens leave? In my experience RCIA has always been in the evening (I've had several friends undergo RCIA and also other friends who teach it), so the catechumens just stay at the whole Mass, and would either stay in the pew or receive a blessing during communion.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    If catechumens are dismissed, it's done after the Prayer of the Faithful.

    I'm not sure that it's a good idea to dismiss them: often some of the people in the RCIA group -- maybe most -- are already baptized Christians.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    "This church has visitors weekly from CharlesW and the Swan's church"

    Nice to know, but we hadn't missed them at all. Donna, did you know some of your flock were cavorting among the heathen?

    The RCIA folks tend to do most of their stuff at the evening mass, so I rarely see them.
  • Chris AllenChris Allen
    Posts: 150
    IIRC, the catechumens are supposed to go to the parish hall (or wherever) for additional study of (and meditation on) the readings, but smaller parishes such as mine may not be able to do this, so it doesn't really make sense to dismiss them if the parish doesn't have a "place to put them," so to speak.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    CharlesW I had no idea -perhaps they are refugees from the 9am Mass? I must say the attendance at 10:30Mass has been swelling of late. For what reason I could hazard a guess, but will not commit in print on this forum.
    Donna
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I really don't know the rubrics, but we bid them adios before the Credo and GI's, as they do not officially receive and enjoin the Credo until Easter Vigil.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Yes, I believe that is correct. CharlesW. I know the RCIA class here receives first the Credo one night, then the Lord's Prayer. I may have that backwards. Anyway they do this at two of their regular Weds evening meeting in the Cathedral, one each week.

    Donna
  • naupegos
    Posts: 8
    My wife is in RCIA at St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church in Waynesboro, VA.
    We in the pews sing a slight adaptation of verse 105 from Psalm 119 during dismissal.

    "[may] Your word [be] a lamp for my feet, [and] a light [to guide] my path"

    We sing it unaccompanied, with taize-like repetition until the catechumens have gone out.
    The tune we sing it to is a little more complex than the Mundelein tunes, but not much.
    It feels simple, clean and fresh.
    We do dismissal right after the silent period following the homily.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Well, the ancient Roman dismissal was, I believe, "Catechemuni recedant. Si quis catechumenus est, recedat" said by the deacon. Perhaps this could be intoned as they depart.
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    How about playing Chariots of Fire while they leave in slow motion.......?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    WWTEFD is often a good answer....

    What Would The Extraordinary Form Do when the Catechumens leave.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Alex, the answer is "What is 'nada?'" Niente, nichts, zilch....
    I've long felt that "music for RCIA" was engineered to become a cottage industry. Can we say "LAREC"?
    Of course, I'm so into curmudgeonry that I don't even have beer goggles to appreciate "RCIA" itself. Sorry.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    I'm thinking Happy Trails to you | Until we meet again would be a fun choice.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    That would be fun J!
    But is it only me that wonders (the answer, yelled in unison, "YES!") whether this portion of the RITE of Christian Iniation of Adults, in essence, contravenes "lex orandi, lex credendi"? Todd, David H., anyone....please chime in.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    I'll simply sing "Happy Trails."

    Why do you have to sing?
    How about they sing (that Sound of Music song).
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    In my first parish job, we would dismiss the catechumens with "Rise, shine, and give God your glory glory". No joke. The nun-with-certificate in charge of RCIA wept when I objected to all of the silly RCIA music, saying, "Muchael, you just don't understand. You've never been to 'Beginnings and Beyonds'"
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Isn't there a 12 step program for 'Beginnings and Beyonds'"?

    Or at least for stupid titles?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    The RCIA is a wonderful process. Don't blame the ritual books for the craziness of their implementation.
    (It isn't the fault of the Novus Ordo that someone thought clown mass was a good idea, either).

    In the parish I grew up in, the RCIA (and the larger "Sacramental Preparation" process) was the only place where any Catholics in our deanery regularly experienced the Liturgy of the Hours.
    The RCIA folks were the one most likely to consult the GIRM (or even know what one was).
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 314
    That's true, Adam. The rituals are beautiful when done well. I was commissioned by St. Pius Parish in Manchester NH to write chant-inspired settings of the Scrutinies. Writing specifically for their talented soprano soloist, I ended up composing rather Hildegard-like petitions.
  • Patricia Cecilia
    Posts: 400
    @Olbash, could you post your 'rather Hildegarde-like petitions'? Or send them on? I know a parish or two where they would be welcome.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    I have some pieces I have composed for the dissmissal and other RCIA rites, if you are interested, give me a buzz:
    ghmus7@hotmail.com
    Gregory Hamilton
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