"What organ music do you feel is essentially Catholic, that is in terms of the actual noes on the page?"

Is there an essential difference between a Catholic B-flat and a Protestant B-flat? On the Kilgen (i.e. Catholic!) pipe organ at my disposal, I have played a B-flat occurring in a composition of Pietro Yon, and (with the same registration), a B-flat occurring in a composition of J. S. Bach, and despite the most intense listening, I utterly failed to detect any difference between the Catholic B-flat and the Lutheran B-flat (or B, if you prefer, as Bach's B-flat is actually H). It is the same air passing through the same pipes, producing the same wavelength. Does the difference reside in the intervals? A Catholic versus a Protestant perfect fifth? Not likely; we must delve further into the musical context. At what point in its unfolding can we say that a composition defines itself as "Catholic" or "Protestant"?

I reject the simplistic notion that the defining factor is the creed of the composer. There is music by Anglican composers, for example, that is vastly more attuned to Catholicism than music by certain Catholic composers, such as many of those in the OCP catalog.

Yurodivi

Worship III indeed uses Nun komm with its Advent text: "Saviour of the Nations, Come". "Fire of God" is a secondary use of the tune for Pentecost.

I feel that music is Catholic which gives glory to God. Inasmuch as Bach does that, his music is Catholic. How is that so hard to figure out?

Again, my apologies. It seemed like the right thing given the circumstances. Again, this is a rare intervention done only at the urging of the original poster. I suppose some of these points seem a bit out of context given the intervention.

The text we customarily use for Holy God, We Praise Thy Name is the work of Clarence Alphonsus Walworth (1820-1900), who was ordained a Roman Catholic priest in 1848 and was later pastor of St.Mary's Church in Albany, NY.

On the topic at hand, I have found the organ sonatas of Giovanni Battista Cirri (1704-1808) generally quite liturgically useful and not at all difficult.

I was speaking in a broad sense, jscola. I would agree to some extent that there is music more founded in the Roman tradition than others. You give the example of Couperin, and I would agree that it is "more Catholic" than Bach in that it was specifically written to be played during the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. However, I think such discussions are far more academic than useful, since there is no cause to exclude the "less Catholic" music from the Mass, although I could see (but not agree with) the "Catholic" works being given favor in planning.

Unfortunately, the question begs the argument. People are always going to debate "appropriateness" as against practical application. Having said that, here's a list, and some reasons for their selection:

The works of Dom Paul Benoit (two books of "Elevations", plus his book of "Pieces d'orgue" if you can find it in print). His music is rooted in the church modes, which is perhaps an appropriate criteria for "authentically Catholic" music. The Elevations are shorter and easy to sight-read or learn quickly. They're excellent for offertories or communion processions. The Pieces d'orgue are all based on chant-based hymns. Although some of the tunes used are Office hymns, and not from the Mass, they are, nonetheless, effective pieces for preludes and postludes. For example, the final piece in the Pieces d'orgue is a Prelude and Fugue on "Victimae Paschale Laudes."

There are certainly many sets of pieces that were used for Mass (toccatas, versets, etc.,) from pretty much every country; Spain, Italy, France (Cabezon, Frescobaldi, Couperin for example). The difficulty is that while these pieces look simple on the page, they're really only effective if you can master the basics of the style from each country, and have an instrument that can effectively carry the style. The Italian pieces can be rather dull, in my opinion, with the exception of the elevation toccatas.

Thomas Tallis wrote some interesting chant-based keyboard music, but you have to dig to find it in published form outside of the complete works.

There are a fair number of contemporary (that is, living) composers who have contributed to chant-based repertoire: Charles Callahan and Gerald Near (Chantworks series, St. Augustine Organbook) come to mind. Their pieces vary in difficulty from almost sight-readable to recital-level, so choose wisely if you're a beginner.

Someone on the other thread mentioned the "L'orgue mystique" sets of Tournemire. His music is an acquired taste, and while again some of it may look simple on the page, it takes some depth to really gain a hold on his deep spiritual nature. While we're on about the French school, I've played pieces from Vierne (Pieces en style libre) and Langlais (24 modal pieces, etc), some of which is quick-learning, others take several weeks. I played Langlais' "Te Deum" as the postlude on All Saints, but worked on it for several weeks. Franck wrote a book of harmonium pieces (L'organiste) that are quite simple and sight-readable.

Of course, I have no difficulty playing the music of Bach, Pachelbel, Buxtehude, Scheidt, Howells, Alec Rowley, Lloyd Weber (NOT Andrew, but the church organist/composer), Willan, Jongen and the list goes on. I see no problem using music of these composers for the OF.

If we're talking about the EF, I have no idea where to begin because this is where the real debate begins. In this case it seems that the use of the organ in the EF is so closely tied with the different historic "national" practices (French alternatim Masses, proper use of Italian elevation toccatas), that it becomes more an exercise in scholarship than a question of practical application. We're 21st century organists playing in the 21st century Church.

(I hope my contribution has been helpful, and I certainly apologize if I helped throw grease on the fire on the other thread. I take note that my entries on that thread were among those that were "stripped out." I quite understand JT's reasoning for doing it. On the other hand, I would hope that we can recognize that sometimes even the most innocent of questions or topics can generate hot debate, and pursue that debate with intellectual honesty.)

Thank you, David Andrew, really useful post. (And to you also, John, the name Cirri was new to me.)
Those of us who come to the bench through the backdoor, as it were (educated as or with experience as, variously, choral conductors, pianists, early music scholars, singers, liturgists....) and need to hit the ground running, don't always find such knowledgeable organist willing to offer guidance in the form of the short answer.

"I feel that music is Catholic which gives glory to God. Inasmuch as Bach does that, his music is Catholic. How is that so hard to figure out?"

Gavin, I think the existence of many things, from the hamd to the latest praise music chorus demonstrates that your definition is insufficiently... definite.


(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

I thought of adding a comment on categorical confusion, then stumbled on Michael Lawrence's posting on NLM on the subject of organ music for Laetare Sunday, complete with with a link to a performance of Bach's O Mensch, bewein' dein Suende gross. 'Nuf said.