ICEL-Bishops working on music
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Helen Hitchcock sends this:

    Item from Pastoral Music - Feb-Mar 2008 p 12:

    MUSIC FOR THE MISSAL
    In a report on the work of the International Commission on English in the
    Liturgy (ICEL) prepared for the meeting of the Catholic Academy of Liturgy
    in Savannah, Georgia, on January 3, Father Paul Turner noted that work on
    "music for the [English translation of the Missale Romanum] continues to
    progress. The prefaces have been completed, and the music committee hopes to
    finish its other work in January 2008 or in one subsequent meeting. That
    will include the chants from the Order of Mass, specific feasts, and the
    Appendices." Father Turner is a secretary-facilitator for the semi-annual
    meetings of the eleven bishops of the Commissioin.
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    To paraphrase a commonly seen bumper sticker:

    Pray hard. Because no one's schola, choir or dignity is safe when the ICEL is in session. !!!!!
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    The ICEL Music Committee. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Has anyone heard whether the new edition will use chant or modern notation?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    oh surely modern. I hope the words and notes line up unlike in the current edition.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    "ICEL ... music committee ... secretary-facilitator"

    Why does my heart sink?
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    G's Law #536

    Beware of any enterprise requiring a "facilitator."
  • John B
    Posts: 16
    Has anyone seen the actual musical settings yet? I understand that they are near completion, but you have to have a secret password to gain access to them.

    http://www.icelweb.org/musicintro.htm
    http://www.icelweb.org/news.htm
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Right. They sent the passwords out with the unenforceable and morally non-binding proviso that we not share them. Still, I can't be the one to share them ;)
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    But apparently they will give to password to virtually any musically illiterate, personally obnoxious idiot.;oP

    All I did was email and they gave it me.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I am generally a bit fearful when bishops meet, especially with the term ICEL thrown in. Our lives and property, not to mention our ears, may be in danger. ;-)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Although we might not agree with every choice made, it is nice to see evidence that some thought was put into these settings. In the end, they do not look half bad, and at the very least are a great excuse to start singing the acclamations and responses where they are not currently being sung, and to provide some uniformity among those who are already singing these parts of the Mass on a regular basis.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Is this mean all the parish in US sing the same music not just the same texts? And who are the ones actually writing the music? Do we have names of the musicians?
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    Obviously these eleven members of the Commission are superior in musicianship and judgment to a thousand years of musical tradition. All you need to do is submit to their advice, plebes!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    So those music will be given to parishes for free to use?
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Free? did you say freeeeeeeeeee? bwahahahaha. I mean, they can't do that. It would cause it to go all over the world, teaching all nations, etc. and we surely can't have that.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Well, sorry, I don't know much about the business world.(although my dad was a businessman.) So, this means Haas and Haugen can compose music for the new texts and can be in competition on the market on the same level with the music from the Church?
    So Jesus didn't tell us or show us what to do about money when we go out and evangelize?
    It's too complicated. I should not ask too many questions on this. I'll just pray something wonderful things will happen with the new texts.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Although the current ICEL is fairly good at writing prose English - with the help of Vox Clara with whom they share some members - I don't know how musically literate they are. We'll probably end up with some adaptations that are less than, well, good. I hope that they actually use the differing formulae for the preface dialogue and the like, and don't chop out all the melismae like in the current one. I shudder to think about the proper antiphons and how truncated they'll be. Unfortunately the "reformed-folk artists" will continue to write their drivel with the new texts simply because they're employed by the big publishers. Oy. Poor Fr. Webber will be out of business. And, once the Revised Grail Psalter is enforced, so will the Chabanel Psalm Project as well. Miserere nobis Domine.
    P.S.: Mr. Tucker, I enjoy your articles in The Wanderer; hopefully ICEL and the USCCB will realise that the Liturgy, whether in Latin or the vernacular, belongs to the WHOLE Church, not just committees, commissions, conferences and publishers. Keep up the good work.
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 406
    All these ICEL committees, bishops, groups, etc., should look to the Anglican Use parishes for proper English. Its all been done for them even with correct grammar, syntax and in good prose. They do NOT have to re-invent the wheel!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    They've been reinventing the wheel for 40 years. Why stop now?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    And unfortunately, that wheel has 4 sides. ;-)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "They do NOT have to re-invent the wheel!"

    I would agree. However, in another thread we have other forum members stating that "protestant" hymns shouldn't be used by Catholics. And this nearly 500 years after the birth of protestantism! 40 years ago, the thought of getting a text from the 1928 BCP would have been thought by even the wildest reformer to be abominable. And with the rise of the "Catholic bubble" syndrome among trads of late, we may never stop re-inventing the wheel. Mediocrity and insularity go hand-in-hand.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin:

    Please define insularity for us as you apply it to this thread.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Insularity, from Insular:

    1.
    1. Of, relating to, or constituting an island.
    2. Living or located on an island.
    2.
    1. Suggestive of the isolated life of an island: “He is an exceedingly insular man, so deeply private as to seem inaccessible to the scrutiny of a novelist” (Leonard Michaels).
    2. Circumscribed and detached in outlook and experience; narrow or provincial.
    3. Anatomy. Of or relating to isolated tissue or an island of tissue.

    As it relates to the topic of Catholic culture and liturgics, I use it to refer to the idea that a practice, resource, idiom, etc. is improper for usage by or for Catholics due to its non-Catholic origin, irrespective of other (doctrinal, aesthetic) judgments. Examples would be refusing to use a doctrinally sound appropriate piece of music due to the author and primary usage being protestant, or (relevant here) refusing to use texts translated by protestants as a starting point for liturgical translation. There are other manifestations of this as regards social behavior and such, but we have better things to do than argue about those.

    Hopefully that clarifies my point, and agree or disagree you may understand why I see it an undesirable viewpoint for a successful church musician. As for whether it actually is a faulty viewpoint, that is a debate I will leave to others. I simply wished to point out that those at fault for our ugly ICEL texts are ideologically of the same stripe as those who rail against "protestant" hymns.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Maybe it's not the hymn itself, but but the problem is how the average Catholics and musicians use it in our liturgy in local parishes.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin

    thnx for clarification.

    Many "Protestant" hymns are just fine with me.
    Many ICEL texts will never be fine with me.

    Was just curious about the insulationist thing.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    clarification:

    In my mind, Protestants and Episcopalians are all seeking the truth of Catholicism. The "many hymns" that I am referring to ^^ are only those that are free of error with regards to Catholic theology and dogma.

    Certain hymn musics (not including text) have been assumed into the body of sacred music over time. As we all know, some of our hymns have, in the past, been secular (ie., drinking) songs. Dare I say, this issue probably deserves another thread.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    No, please, not another thread on "this issue"!
    If we use SEARCH for a few minutes
    we will probably find this hot-button issue has already been visited,
    and we can avoid re-hashing it.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    eft:

    Hmmmm... can you point me to that thread?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "only those that are free of error with regards to Catholic theology and dogma."

    That goes without saying!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Gavin

    Not for some people.
  • soli
    Posts: 95
    Have you seen these yet? http://www.icelweb.org/musicfolder/openmusic.php Just in case you haven't...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Tis ashame its not in true chant notation!
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,044
    So let's see: we can't sing Protestant hymns that comport with Catholic doctrine, but we can sing all manner of heresies as long as they are found in "real Catholic music". Right?
  • Maureen
    Posts: 674
    Grin... Of course not. We can steal the good stuff from anybody; and we shouldn't sing the bad stuff from anybody, for any value of bad.

    But all church musicians have their own ideas about what is "the best sacred music" with which to worship God; and all church musicians operate under various constraints. People have a right to follow their own opinions in this sort of prudential matter -- indeed, that's part of why they get hired instead of some total ignoramus (one hopes, anyway). So expect to see some people argue violently against using the organ to accompany chant, and some people to argue violently for a totally Catholic Catholic aesthetic.

    Personally, I'm prepared to feel one way on Monday, another way on Tuesday, and so on. It probably depends a lot on the playlist I've been listening to, and whether or not EWTN has recently featured some traditional but offkey group. (Actually, I think in some cases, they just didn't use to have sound equipment that could capture the full dynamic range of people's voices, and that the people were on-key but the sound equipment was cutting off the top of their voices with bad compression.)
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Maureen, that's funny about the EWTN choir. I tuned in one day last week, they were singing an obviously recently composed Gloria and featured a new tenor I'd never "heard" before, quasi-operatic fellow. I thought it quite odd to feature a soloist for the conventual "daily" Mass, and that it seemed to last at least five minutes or so. Just when you think they're getting a handle on the "choral thing" they pull a ______ (mulligan.)
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