• We visit churches and evaluate their music, just like lay people do. Some of the worst music making occurs when people go beyond the level of the musical ability. And today that tends to be every Sunday.

    This can occur because we live in modern times when a top of the line music studio engineer creates a recording that cannot be reproduced in real life. And we hear the most talented of singers on recordings. The rapid spread of music since the invention of printing and then recording is unprecedented. In fact, we all know that typesetting used to be an art. And now anyone can do it. But few can do it well. And the same applies to music.

    The Star Spangled Banned and the Schubert Ave Maria are both butchered with regularity. The SSB because of the proliferation of performances that take liberties. The AM because people who have not yet learned to sense the pulse of music try to sing it anyhow.

    Chant was and is composed under very strict rules, if you do not follow the rules, it does not sound like chant. And those rules outline a form of music that anyone can sing. The continual return to chant in the Church is the return to music that any church can sing adequately.

    So all churches, country and cathedral, are on an equal footing.

    Once the choir can sing chant, then they can begin early polyphony. Since it is also written under the same rules of composition, then it too may be mastered by any choir.

    What is better, music sung adequately in every church or music that is badly done? Which one does the church stand behind and return to?
  • Alas part of our problem too is that every parish is expected to have a choir but few have enough trained singers to fill one. This filters to the cathedral when it cannot pull the best singers in the diocese without a) destroying the fragile parish choirs or b) paying non-Catholics. Add in the fact that singers in their 20s-40s are expected by society to hand over their lives to their children in such a way that they cannot commit to choir rehearsals, the pool of trained singers is shallow.
  • Michael, My boss refuses to entertain the notion of paying anyone to sing in the choir. I pay two people out of my own pocket. At max, I have about 25 singers on any given Sunday, half of whom read music. Over the years,though, they have turned into an excellent choir. But most are aging now, b/c of what you talk about- young families busy raising children. The two I am currently paying (a mere pittance to what they could get elsewhere) are married, but no babies yet. Another part of problem is that Catholics were not brought up with good choirs like most Protestants were. We have about 1200 to 1300 families in my parish. I should have a much bigger choir statistically speaking. On the other hand, no 'Jeezak' is heard so perhaps it doesn't appeal to them.

    Donna
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Donnaswan - You should get a trademark on that “Jeezak”! I expect to see if fairly often in the future.

    Don't fear the size of your choir. We have about 35 regulars in our main choir from a parish of 14 thousand families. There are two other choirs of 5-10 folks ("folks") and the balance of our Masses are cantored. We have similar conditions among our singers. Many are aging. In the past year we've had cause to contact family members in several cases when our concerns reached a point of no denial that the health of the individuals was deteriorating. We have two members yet for whom the adjacent singer must spend an inordinate amount of time helping them find their music, figure what page we're on, etc. Yet as we are occasionally reminded in sermons, if this is the voice God has given our choir, we're going to give it right back to Him!

    Sadly, although I could wish for it I don't think that Chant is the remedy. Our choir/congregation did sing O Lord of Light today at the Offertory, and I sang several verses of Creator Alme Siderum to fill out the time. But despite a large number of positive comments after Mass both from choir and congregation, our earlier attempts to get a Schola going at this church met with reluctance on the part of our priests (both current and previous pastors) and with singers lacking the time in their week to devote to the study necessary - both linguistic and musical.

    We must also face the fact that anybody not already in or approaching the Social Security Years was not reared in a Church that truly embraced the de jure claim that Latin is the language and Chant the music of the Church. The de facto world in which we live says just the opposite. The Vatican itself no longer uses Latin in the initial release of documentation, but works out the translation later. And the chant heard in Rome has been somewhat harshly critiqued right here.

    I should mention that our DM/principal organist has gone to bat with the pastor more than once to work more chant into the liturgy, with increasing success. Our choir director too has worked to identify music which, while contemporary, includes chant fundamentals as well. And they are both card carrying members of the NPM. Perhaps it would be worthwhile for one of the Colloquium’s breakout sessions to be a brainstorming session discussing ways to build bridges with that organization in the interest of expanding the use of chant while accepting that it is not the panacea we might desire.
  • Perhaps we as church musicians should focus more on schools attached to churches and on developing children's choirs. Church musicians need to be more knowledgeable and skilled about how and what to teach children and to use CHANT as the very basic and essential building blocks of any music program. Secondly, I suggest that such students need to be taught their responsibilities in learning this music and helping to promote and preserve it for the future. We must NOT have "water-down" music education in our Catholic schools. And finally we must help these children to appreciate that anyone can sing this great music and that music is a discipline; and as a discipline, everyone, regardless of age, must approach this discipline with an attitude of "living sacrifice." We must rehearse more than once a week. Yes, I know many families are very busy, but parents who realize that such a great musical education is FREE, will want to take advantage of any such music program; even if it means rehearsing more than once a week. Yes, you will, at first, have only a few students but success breeds success. It will take time. It has generally been my experience that children see and in some ways understand why such music is important and what it takes to achieve it. Adults, are well, more of a challenge!
  • Dear Priorstf, "Jeezak' is the term of choice for most professional instrumentalists who are hired at the local Baptist/Methodist, etc churches for their 'Cantatas' around Christmas and Easter. I've heard it for years. So descriptive, if slightly profane.
    Perhaps I am in a better place than you, though- we have always had the chant mass during Advent and Lent, and my choir does quite a bit of Latin,, inc traditional Latin hymns as well as anthem settings. Even though the pastor does not like it, we have a very conservative congregation for the main mass of the day. Last year, he tried to introduce a bilingual mass during Lent- that Missa de Pueblo, and got deluged with phone calls as well as personal visits demanding it be removed. Can you imagine that 'Santo,Santo' sung during Lent? BUT, the choir sang it for the Triduum, b/c have a large Spanish population here. Considering that I used the Spanish settings of the Respond and Acclaim Psalms for three or four of the Psalms for Vigil, I think he was satisfied.
    And as far as I can tell, there is no senility in the choir, but deafness is a problem at times.

    Donna
    Donna
  • I agree with what Ken wrote above about focusing on the education of children and rebuilding or building up a choir or schola from that base. It takes a very long range view of things but well worth it if were are to inculcate among the rising generations knowledge and love of the chant of the Church.
  • First, the school must be willing to hire someone who is competent in teaching the norms of the Church. I'm afraid it seldom happens- at lest where I am.
    Until this year, each teacher was allowed to choose the hymns and service music when it was her/his class's turn to do the music for daily school mass!!!! Was astounding what teachers considered appropriate for daily Mass.

    Donna
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 994
    I think there are two keys to a brighter future for Church music - children and the clergy. Catch them both early in the education process and we stand a chance. At the same time, this reminds me of solving crime problems with better early childhood education.
  • I refer the readership to the lecture/chronology that Rev. Jeff Keyes gave at 09 Colloquium for a model of pastoral leadership vis a vis a pastor's influence at the parish school. Should be implemented by every pastor with a school. I'm that guy at my place. The primary objective of my job description at school is not effecting the kids' mastery of music theory, choral artistry or ancillary musical goals. I've clearly articulated to them, their parents, the staff, the clergy that I'm there to instruct them on how to achieve being "singing Catholics at Mass and all liturgies and devotions." Down to the first grade, these kids can identify and sing the attributes of chant, hymns and songs. And they also are instructed in the foundational heirarchies of those three forms, and their relation to the structure of the Mass. And we crossed over with public school kids last summer with using Justine Ward's "The Story of Salvation" primer for Vacation Bible School. They ate up "Conditor," "Veni Creator" and "Adoro te.."
    If and when (sigh) we can figure out a pull out program for a multigrade, committed school choir within the weekly curricular schedule, Pueri Cantores- look for a new member choir.
    But "theme" Masses and classroom teachers choosing music ended five years ago happily for everyone. The school Masses have become dignified and coalesced.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    CCA - Is there a transcript of Fr. Keyes's presentation? Did he indicate that this situation is being driven by/in opposition to the Diocesan school board or is it strictly am independent pastoral endeavor?
  • Chrism
    Posts: 872
    Chant promotes unity in the Latin Church. Chanting expresses my desire to be faithful to Sacred Tradition and loyal to the Roman Pontiff.
  • Y'know, priorstf, I didn't occur to me to ask him that.
    However, I do have a story to tell that might provide insight.
    Fr. Jeff and Wendy/me have known and traveled similar philosophical/real pathways for three decades or so. Our reunion (the three of us) was marked by a Chicago pizza night at some place he knew of, and also by some seminarians from the south.
    He told us this over deep dish- somewhere early in his curve at St. Edward's he went to visit the principal of the school. He expressed his concerns and views about the processes by which musical and liturgical decisions and praxis were evident at the school liturgies.
    The principal was evidently not prepared for such an encounter and offered what she thought would be a sufficient response (I can't recall the quote verbatim), "Father, I don't think your authority extends over to school matters."
    He responded, to the best of our collective memories, "There is no limit to my authority within this parish." He relayed the story so matter-of-factwise that I'm sure he responded with the same cool, calm manner in which he told us the story. He did say both in our casual conversation and in the plenum address that eventually the administration and teachers came to appreciate that upright mode of leadership. But I clearly remember thinking "Way to go, Jeff! You are da Pastor!"
    As far as a transcript, I think that "Sacred Music" or NLM has it archived.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Carl Dierschow's collection of 2009 colloquium recordings includes Fr. Keyes' talk (see June 25).
  • Back to the subject...chant does not require trained singers, chant is easier than anything that is currently being sung in almost all parishes.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Noel

    Very true.

    I have promoted that fact consistently and they all realize how easy it is compared to the regular choir.
  • Really? Tell that to my schola that is trying to get the Advent II Offertory down. This is easier than Gather Us In? Perhaps we should be specific?
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Agreed, Michael. It's easy to sing chant badly, but to sing it with the beauty and power that it possesses requires a fair bit of work. I don't subscribe to the theory that the intelligibility of the words is unimportant. Many MANY hours are needed to perfect the pronunciation and enunciation needed. This is particularly true for those who are unfamiliar with Latin.

    Non-chant choirs often have their musical instrumentation to fall back on too; a good pipe organ can cover many ills. In chant, the arts of listening and blending come to the fore. That air-raid-siren warble of a soprano and the bellicose bass must both be beaten into submission. A completely different tone must be built that differs significantly from the music most people are accustomed to hearing. Easy? No.

    Perhaps, however, I can compromise. Chant is simply the most difficult easy music I've ever encountered.
  • priorstf, Hey you just caught me in a facetious mood ; -) We all know the challenges. A bad chant choir is still better than a folk group.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Michael - If we're serious about modernizing our music it would be necessary first to rewrite "Gather Us In" as "Beam Us Up".

    That aside, I'm not sure I subscribe to the bad chant vs. folk group argument. We have a parish vicar whose ... unique style, shall I say? ... of chanting the Ordinary has probably set back the cause for chant in the parish by a generation. Not even the choir can figure out how to respond to his Variations on a Theme of The Lord Be With You. My preference would be silence over either one.

    But I also recognize that there are many in the parish who attend Masses with contemporary music of their own free will. If that is their path to God then I do them an injustice by standing in their way. We Are, after all, Called To Serve One Another.
  • Really? Tell that to my schola that is trying to get the Advent II Offertory down. This is easier than Gather Us In? Perhaps we should be specific?

    Good point! Thanks.

    Let me try to explain.

    As directors, we need to try and choose music that teaches and serves the liturgy. I suppose that's why I support the Simplex. It is possible to sing the Mass with a choir almost from the first rehearsal. First the ordinary, then the propers. Maybe you start with the Rossini propers and then move to the Simplex and then the Graduale in all of its glory.

    Does this mean that Michael is over-challenging his choir? Not at all, he is moving them higher and higher in their ability.

    My original statement should have read that any choir can sing chant and eventually master, with work, the most difficult of chants. As directors, we have to choose musis that challenges without discouraging, tempering our desire to sing the most florid chants until people are ready.

    What if the group never gets beyond the Simplex? That's still better than...well, look around your diocese.
  • G
    Posts: 1,400
    Having just left a school Mass where the "sending song" was "Let Us Break Bread Together On Our Knees" with multiple tambourines and piano, I agree that we cannot over-emphasize the disastrous consequences of bad liturgical formation for Catholic children.
    I also know how easy it is to to inculcate good taste, and good attitudes toward authentic Catholic music in children, (until, alas, the DRE or whoever gets his nose out of joint and shuts things down,) so I have great hope.

    It will be a long climb up that mountain, but thank God for the CMAA.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    Granted, we haven't tackled the florid chant, my schola has come very far in the space of one year. Nuances will take more time, but the chant as we are singing it now far outweighs the trite sacropop for sure.
  • priorstf, this is probably the 12th time you have written something along the lines of the above, and I'm really finding it tedious. You think people don't know that there are challenges? of course there are challenges, and great sacrifices must be made too. That's usually the way it is when you pursue an ideal with a goal of bringing about massive change for the good. Christian history has a lots of experience with this sort of thing.

    By the way, you need to update your information on the Vatican. Dom Saulnier is now the main chant tutor with the encouragement of Fr. Pierre Paul. Huge things are happening. Of course they could have taken a different path: walked around with long faces mumbling about how chant stands no chance in the modern world.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Mr. Tucker:

    Of course they could have taken a different path: walked around with long faces mumbling about how chant stands no chance in the modern world.

    Yep. That's me. Which is why I started two parish scholae and have worked somewhat diligently to incorporate chant into the previously chantless cathedral. But I submit to your chastisement and will depart.