Batastini: "Avoiding a Tsunami"
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Bob Batastini has an article in the new (Fall) edition of the GIA Quarterly that I think is worth some discussion.

    In it he compares the changes made at Vatican II (which he agrees with and thinks were carried out well) with the new translation of the Roman Missal (which he doesn't agree with - "I have a 2003 car. I am relatively certain that the 2010 model of my car will have considerable improvements. Yet, I like my car, and, improved version or not, I intend to keep it for a long time because it suits me just fine.").

    I think it's an interesting article, though clearly I disagree with many points made in it.

    His one paragraph almost seems intended as a pep-rally for the progressive readers and as though intended to anger any conservatives:
    "Well, like it or not, folks understood the "what" of the revisions, e.g.s, Latin was virtually abandoned for the language of the people, the priest faced the people in a gesture of forming community with them, and vocal participation-which has succeeded with spoken texts far more universally than with the sung texts-was introduced. Yet it's no secret that we'd be in a better place toay had the liturgical catechesis been more thorough and universally embraced."

    He of course, in the first paragraph seems to disagree with Pope Benedict on the Extraordinary Form.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on the article?

    Having spoken with Mr. Batastini at many events, and even driven him around in my car one time, I think he's a good man with a love of the Catholic Church. He, however, does think hymnody is the way to go and seems very uneasy with the thought of Propers being done in regular parish churches (though he sees a need for them at Cathedrals if I remember my conversation with him correctly).
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I suspect he is, as are many others, a good man. I also suspect he's part of the problem, not the solution. His view of propers might change considerably, if GIA could find a way to make money from selling them.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I'm sure GIA could put out their own Marty Haugenish or David Haasy version of Psallite.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    That's a scary thought. I can't evaluate Psallite. I heard a couple of selections from it on a CD, and didn't like what I heard. Whether or not the rest of it is good, I don't know.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,050
    I like my old shoes too, Mr. Batastini, but I hope I know when it's time for a new pair if they've been hurting my feet.

    At least the car comparison could have been more accurate - the current translation is more like a rusty obsolete gas-guzzler circa 1973 - "unsafe at any speed."

    Sam Schmitt
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,223
    "he sees a need for them [Propers] at Cathedrals"

    Oh? What concept is behind this? Priests and faithful in parishes can't possibly want to do what the Church presents for them to do in the liturgy. Let's leave it to the Bishop to preside over that.

    It reminds me of the notion that it's up to the monks and nuns to pursue holiness, and common people needn't think about it too much.
  • Pop music in church = telling the people that the Church is being led by the world
    Sacred music in church = telling the people that the Church leads, the world really should follow
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    Nice man.

    I did see him actually publicly cry over the Bernadine incident in which the bishop was being accused of a homosexual triste with a former seminarian. He had a real love for the Cardinal.

    Yes, he is a "progressive", but really a nice person and really believes in what he has bought into. Remember though that GIA, which he "joined" in 1967 and subsequently became VP and senior editor, stands for Gregorian Institute of America - a fact not much emphasized, even on their own website; in fact, I could not find any such reference.


    Here is from his own words, the article mentioned above. He thinks the modern liturgical renewal "movement" has become flawed, but some of the reactionaries (us) are trying to blame Vat. II and take things back to a pre Vat. II style of worship, which he seems to not approve of. So he knows things are out of kilter, and he fully acknowledges the move toward "entertainment" and the usurpation of the liturgy by narcissist musicians, he just thinks the "reform," the reform of headier, more idealist times, was not adhered to.

    http://www.giamusic.com/products/P-GIAQ.cfm
  • I find it very difficult to accept "something done by the priest" "event" and everything else he has said. He's nice and bought into it. I'm not buying.


    "In the parish church, the emphasis was on the full, conscious, and active participation of the assembly. The liturgy, once perceived as something done by the priest for the people, was being turned full circle into an event that was done by the assembly with the leadership of the priest and other ministers. The assembly’s song was recognized as the principle musical element of the rites."
  • I rarely see this publication actually.
  • Tactus
    Posts: 17
    Mine go directly from my mail box to the trash can the instant I get them. However, perhaps I should dig this out and take a look.
    They could make money on the propers if they let David Haas loose on em and had him do another series of commercial jingle books like his psalm settings.
  • I believe that GIA no longer uses the full title for any reason. They, like KFC, have adopted the acronym only for the purposes of recognizability and brand loyalty.
  • Mr. Batasini provides all of us with a very potent reminder, though. His reality is still much more likely than ours. A generation has been raised w/o the beauty of chant and serious religious music and fully expects church music to be popular in style. Any change to this paradigm will be painful to them and difficult for the changers as many of us already know. We like to believe sometimes that it's only the older generation that likes the status quo. That's not my observation. I really think most younger people would prefer to update the pop music rather than eliminate it entirely. The difficult part of the reform will be training very young people in real church music and trying remind them of this while they attend mass with guitars and conga drums. Although this idea is anathema in some churches, I think we need to build a beach head at the high Mass each Sunday. One Mass with proper church music that can serve as an example and refuge for some. Work on the entire parish can start from this "beach head" to use a military term (unfortunately the battle will be enjoined in many places).
  • Happy Thanksgiving, Dr. MOC-
    Canon law demands that each parish celebrates at least one solemn Mass each Lord's Day, so your point of that Mass being a "beach head" is salient and potent. The trick is- clearly reaching consensus with those who are celebrants that: a. that's the facts, Jack; b. what constitutes a "solemn Mass"; c. oh, that is answered clearly with extent documents; d. everyone in consensus "sticks to their guns."
    How 'bout that, I kept your military analogy afloat.
    Peace/out
  • And to you my left coast friend. A grand day indeed. We certainly must keep working to give the Church back its music in spite of those who would refuse the gift. It starts with teaching the faith properly. Knowing one's Catholic faith SHOULD give one pause in accepting lesser music.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,850
    Breaker Breaker

    This is Lady Blueveil, I repeat, Lady Blueveil!

    We are hunkered down out here in the trenches. We have just distributed our new field handbook to the troops (PBC) and are presently doing drills to launch another anti-rockfolk missile into the battlefield for the first Sunday of Advent, Veni Veni. It will be camoflauged with alternating verses in the vernacular.

    What is your heading, Church Militant?

    Saint Michael, defend us in battle.

    Over...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    We will also be singing the "O" antiphons for each week. There must be wailing and gnashing of teeth at NPM over this.
  • Okay, just for kicks and perspective, I'm channeling my inner John Lennon...
    "Give peace a chance."
    Yeah, I know he penned "Imagine." Get over it.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    All you need is love....
  • but he also became a born-again Christian for a few months in 1977.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Priests and faithful in parishes can't possibly want to do what the Church presents for them to do in the liturgy.

    During Thanksgiving Day dessert ...

    My sister-in-law mentions she and my brother are now attending a different parish.
    The last straw was some months ago, an apology (pre-Mass or post-Mass?)
    for use of a politically in-correct word like "kingdom" during the Gospel.
    "Why cannot I get just the Gospel without the liturgy committee editing it?"
    Pause.
    "Also, I really like that prayer before the Lord Have Mercy."
    "Prayer?"
    "Yeah, the one that goes I confess ...; it is weird that nobody wants to say I am sorry, for anything."
    "The homilies were poor, always God loves you no matter what, never anything about sacrifice."

    A neice, recent college graduate, enters the room and joins the conversation, having had first-hand
    experience attending Mass at three or four parishes in different Dioceses in the last year
    due to different locations of home, school, work, etc.
    "What I do not get is why the Mass is different everywhere I go.
    I do not like the idea of looking around at everyone else to figure out what to do next.
    Whether I am in San Francisco or Sacramento or New York or somewhere in China,
    it should be the same."

    Can you guess that I was astounded? (What just happened? Who stole my relatives and replaced them with you?)
    These brief comments could have developed into a very interesting conversation,
    but these relatives are apparently addicted to the television show, Survivor, and it was time.

    I'd say the Tsunami has already hit and is pulling stuff out to sea.
  • eft,

    You should be pleased indeed. I was just grateful that the younger members of my family still tolerate a prayer before the main meal. Our conversation centered around newly tried recipes: the NYTimes pear stuffing (beware of the $30 a lb. chanterelle mushrooms) and theTest Kitchens pecan, pumpkin, and blue-ribbon apple pies. Well, there are some things that are divine besides liturgy.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • francis
    Posts: 10,850
    Right Now the world needs True Love.
  • A newcomer to this....but a 40 plus year veteran in the fascinating world of Liturgical Music. I agree...Bob Batastini is a nice man. So are many others in the "forefront?" of church music in the last 40 plus years. Welcome to Liturgical Capitalism.
  • "Pop music in church = telling the people that the Church is being led by the world
    Sacred music in church = telling the people that the Church leads, the world really should follow"

    Oh, so true.

    Somebody could write an inspirational book about people who used to convert to Catholicism because Gregorian chant first attracted them to the church. Each chapter would have the same outline: an individual who is not Catholic happens to visit a monastery or nunnery or seminary, is flabbergasted by the chant, and within a week asks to be received into the church. (Of course, it was not the musical notes themselves that captivated these converts but the way of life which those notes symbolized.)
    Somebody could write another book about individuals who lowered their estimation of Roman Catholicism because of the kind of music they heard recently in a monastery or nunnery or seminary. The atheist, for example, will look at a group of nuns floating from one "contemporary" song to another and instantly reach a verdict: "arrested adolescent development." The Protestants will observe seminarians trying to get everyone roused up with the exhilaration of the new Triumphalism and conclude: "The television evangelists can do this better." Even the devout member of the Roman Catholic laity will watch seminarians or monks or nuns wallowing in the goo of some "contemporary" song and quietly affirm: "Yes, this is where the church dumps its misfits."
    "Why is the church running out of priests and nuns?" There are hundreds of reasons and a small but significant one is music. When it comes to music, all too often the seminaries, convents, and monasteries take careful aim and then deliberately shoot themselves in the foot. They deliberately promote music which has lots of sincerity but no crust, no grit, no credibility, no indication that it is wired directly to the deepest secrets of the universe. On a subconscious level, the music says that there is nothing special or distinctive or "heroic" about the religious life.
    --Thomas Day
  • Amen to that. I think we all get the sense that average Catholics don't understand chant or serious music and that's why they don't hear what it's meant to say. Pop music is much more accessible, but as a trade-off, its inspiration only travels a few inches into the soul. People just get uncomfortable when challenged to delve deeper into their faiths and to follow the music that can lead them there. Sure some are lost to us, but so many others can reached if we just know how.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,850
    Ryan

    That is a great quote. Love it.
  • "though he sees a need for [propers] at Cathedrals if I remember my conversation with him correctly."

    FWIW, my new diocese doesn't have a cathedral, it having been destroyed by an arsonist almost four years ago. Still see a need for sung propers though, especially in light of the Church valuing them above even the greatest cathedral (cf SSC).