The real issue: Recollection
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I'm convinced that the real issue in the liturgy wars is the role of what spiritual writers call "recollection."
Do we go to Mass to celebrate? Yes, okay, that's fine. Do we go to "gather"? Actually, yes, that's one aspect, although it's actually the Holy Spirit who gathers us. All of these things are fine. Community is a big part of what the Mass is about. BUT, the question is, what do we do once we're gathered? What is the action? On what level of consciousness, so to speak, will we communicate?
What if every Mass became full of contemplation? What if everyone made the effort to still their minds and imaginations and offer them to God in prayer? What if the musical and verbal cadences helped each person "gather" his or her faculties, stilling the soul like a weaned child, as Scripture says?
I think that if this happened charity and justice would take off like a fire throughout the world. Catholics could not be stopped on their paths to sanctity, and they would not meander.
"Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created, and you shall renew the face of the earth." -
Kathy,
I think you are right. Not knowing why we "gather" makes us vulnerable to the temptation to gather for entertainment, instead of worship.
Just a wee little thought.
Mark -
If I'm right, then perhaps one of the reasons liturgical reform is resisted is the difficulty of recollection. Like all disciplined acts, it seems painful at first.
"It is true that recollection has several degrees, and that in the beginning these great effects are not felt, because it is not yet profound enough. But support the pain which you first feel in recollecting yourself, despise the rebellion of nature, overcome the resistance of the body, which loves a liberty which is its ruin, learn self-conquest, persevere thus for a time, and you will perceive very clearly the advantages which you gain from it. As soon as you apply yourself to prayer, you will at once feel your senses gather themselves together: they seem like bees which return to the hive and there shut themselves up to work at the making of honey: and this will take place without effort or care on your part. God thus rewards the violence which your soul has been doing to itself; and gives to it such a domination over the senses that a sign is enough when it desires to recollect itself, for them to obey and so gather themselves together. At the first call of the will, they come back more and more quickly. At last, after countless exercises of this kind, God disposes them to a state of utter rest and of perfect contemplation."
St. Teresa of Avila, Way of Perfection, ch. 28 -
The way I hear in explained in Orthodoxy is this: stepping into Divine Liturgy is stepping outside of time. It is actually entering, briefly (even four hour festal liturgies are brief compared to eternity!), the Kingdom of Heaven. It is being surrounded by the angels and saints and worshipping God with them, and receiving the Body and Blood of the Lord, the medicine of immortality. Everything is centered on God, on Heaven, on eternity.
Usually the service is already going on when you arrive, because Matins flows naturally into Divine Liturgy, and even before that a preparatory service where the priest makes ready the lamb (communion bread) flows naturally into Matins. Often people don't even turn around to look at you when you enter, and people trickle in all through Matins and a little into Liturgy. We're pretty mobile, walking around to reverence the icons and light candles in front of them, and while mostly we stand at attention, we are always moving: crossing ourselves at every mention of the Trinity (and at any time when the supplications are extremely personally relevant), making profound bows and/or prostrations. Every chant, every hymn, every prayer naturally flows one from another without any artificial pauses or inserted commentary by any person. Everything you see, hear, smell, touch, and taste has layers and layers of symbolic meaning. It just isn't Earth anymore. "Let us, who mystically represent the cherubim, and sing the thrice-holy hymn to the life-creating Trinity, now lay aside all Earthly cares, that we may receive the King of all, who comes invisibly escorted by the angelic hosts, alleluia."
Personal contemplation and communal reverence and worship mingle effortlessly here. Since everything is pointed toward the object of worship, one's thoughts are naturally drawn along.
Of course, I'm not saying that I never get distracted, or space out during liturgy. I do--unfortunately often. Nevertheless, I could never think the Liturgy was ever centered on anything else except the person of Christ and the Trinity. -
Amen.
While most of my complaining, (and I do a powerful lot of it....,) is about inappropriate music, it boils down almost entirely to a single thing -- what we are asked to sing far from encouraging it, actively thwarts recollection.
We especially err in failing to allow children to learn recollection, (which is a skill that can be learned like any other,) in promoting noisy busyness as the best way for children to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
(Save the Liturgy, Save the World) -
Jam, It sounds so 'cool.' G, I agree with you too. I attended a Byzantine Divine Liturgy once on Monday after Easter. The whole Liturgy was so naturally flowing. The elderly lady next to me knew all the songs from heart, and so kindly try to point for me in the 'missale?' where we were. Her singing was beautiful, calm but truly joyful without unnaturally shouting out loud. (my former MD, in his effort to make people sing, usually annonunced to the congregation to sing louder than the next person.) Her beautiful singing wasn't because she had a trained voice or anything like that, but her external attitude was coming truly from the internal joy. She was evangelizing without knowing it.
I didn't notice any hymnals like 'Gather, ' 'RitualSongs.' Also, I think the songs are shown annonymously. (Another reason made me feel more heavely there.) Do they usually sing the same hymns? I'm curious to know how OCP and GIA didn't get into there to 'help out' what they sing? (and what prevented them from coming into the church and monopolize the market?) There must be something we can learn about this. -
The overlapping of things helps keep the liturgy flowing. No stops, no starts. The priest is doing something while the choir is singing something else, and the choir starts singing the next thing while the priest continues doing what he's doing, and then the priest does the next thing.
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Kathy, that's what I love about the EF -- the layers of actions and music. I find that most people who don't like the EF are put off by perceived passivity of the congregation, the need to read a translation, and the multi-tasking. All things that I prefer (although I'm getting to the point where I don't need the translation any longer, except to double check my Latin on the Proper prayers).
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The way the OF is usually celebrated seems calculated to discourage recollection - everything from the casual way many priests process into the sanctuary to the (over-) amplification of the readings and prayers and the loud, busy music. Even if done reverently by the book, there is so much spoken out loud, so much to absorb intellectually that can be very difficult even to begin to pray except in a very explicit vocal manner.
The EF is also "busy" in the sense that there can be a lot going on at any given time - and I would humbly suggest that trying to "follow" everything in a missal all the time is not the way to go - but at least one has a choice to do that or engage in a more extended attempt at prayer that is not necessarily connected point by point with what is going on in the sanctuary.
Jam puts the ideal well - "Since everything is pointed toward the object of worship, one's thoughts are naturally drawn along." I think this is an excellent touchstone for those attending - and celebrating - the sacred liturgy.
Sam Schmitt -
the layers of actions and music.
I remember in my early days of exploring Catholic liturgical blogdom a sarcastic comment from some tradiationalist along the lines of, "Why don't you---? Oh, THAT'S right -- in the Novus Ordo two things can never happen at the same time."
And my thoughts were well, of course not, that must have been a great flaw in the old Mass.
But the more I experience it, and participate in it, the more I see what a strength that is, the Mass is endlessly fascinating, endlessly affording us new insights, new thoughts on which to pray and contemplate, (instead of new loud songs to learn?)
Save the Liturgy, Save the World -
The layers of actions and music- YES!
I am still a newbie to the EF, and loving it. I agree with G that this is a strength.
I also think sacred music has a WHOLE lot to do with inspiring recollection. Consider the OF Masses at the Colloquium. There is a consistent atmosphere of recollection. And as to never doing two things at one time in the OF, well, I think that only works for folks whose minds do not wander. :)
Good post, Kathy! [email me, would you? I lost all my addresses in a computer melt-down] -
Even if I didn't understand Latin very well, EF is the Mass I learned to fully participate in the Holy Sacrtifice and experience His humility and Love. Also, Gregorian chants taught me how to pray, because they bring us to the place where we experience awe and holiness of Divine Majesty.
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I'm curious to know how OCP and GIA didn't get into there to 'help out' what they sing? (and what prevented them from coming into the church and monopolize the market?) There must be something we can learn about this.
GIA and OCP probably didn't meddle with Orthodoxy for two reasons--one, hardly anyone in the US even knows Orthodoxy is here, unless they actually are Orthodox, and two, every word of the Divine Liturgy, no matter what language, is public domain, so there is no profiteering to be done. -
"every word of the Divine Liturgy, no matter what language, is public domain, so there is no profiteering to be done."
Isn't this the way it should be?
I feel somehow very sad for us. -
What is correct to point out, as Jam has, is that the market (Orthodox, Eastern Rite) is so small, as the numbers of churches are small, and also subdivided into different Rites, as to make it unattractive to most publishers, especially those not familiar with the territory.
Otherwise, can we us set the record straight?
Note:From the Orthodox newsletter "PSALM Notes"
"In our previous article on music copyright (PSALM Notes, Spring 1999), we examined the all-
embracing nature of copyright law in the United States and the need for Orthodox church musi-
cians (as well as everyone else) to adhere to its tenets and principles."
.....this is the beginning of a long article outlining the need to respect copyright norms. No hand wringing here, just matter of fact.
Obviously, published pieces are used, as per the article above. At the same time, these churches do have a greater respect of tradition and thus traditional music, and also there are not so many "hymns" employed, hymns as we know them (and certainly not their modern replacements, liturgical 'songs' and such) and these churches actually sing the propers, so again, less need for more modern musics with original texts, though when they do use them, they pay attention to copyright norms. So these are the reasons, not, per se, public domain or lack thereof.
I hope this can dispel, somewhat, the idea that the "rules" or "playing field" for the Western vs. Eastern Rite/Orthodox are so different. (I myself attend an Eastern Rite Catholic Church) The Latin Rite has plenty (PLENTY) of "public domain" musics available, please, by all means, go use them to your heart's content.
The CCD (Confraternity of Christion Doctrine - i.e., the Church herself) controls the copyright to the New American version of the Bible, the one most often used in the Catholic Churches here. As such, the idea is to limit the misapplication of Scriptural texts, not, per se, to profit from the same. To the extent that any Liturgical texts are being "charged for," I am in complete disagreement with that practice, but again, the blame, should there be any, would be with the Church itself, not copyright norms. The ICEL, responsible for the Liturgicall translations, is relatively new commission, which has caused many of the current problems we are now experiencing within the Liturgy of the Latin Rite. Having the ICEL in control of copyrights concerning the lectionary and other liturgical texts (which it is) is probably the least of the ills and conflicts Rome is now confronting concerning the ICEL. So these issues are really more about the Church herself righting the ship liturgically and not per se, about a relatively new phenomenon (ICEL) dating back to only 1963. Before this, the public domain questions regarding liturgical texts was basically a non issue. So this will get straightened out, and it is right now agressively being addressed. In fact, NON USE of ICEL translated material for whatever reason, copyright issues included, is probably a good thing considering the corruptions of our modern translations. -
O no, another open-source thread!
While the economics of the current situation do signify, they are not as important as the mindset of music directors, PIPs and prelates. The hymnals will print what sells: that, for now, is the reality. Music directors will be hired for their ability to program music-that-people-like. And EVERYone knows people don't like chant.
People don't like recollection. However, they like art, or at least some people like art. Artistic value is one path back to chant and polyphony.
People don't like recollection--or do they? What if they had a taste from time to time? What if everything stopped and became very peaceful, with no apologies from the pulpit, for at least one moment every Mass? -
I have heard the phrase worship "in the beauty of Holiness" from the Anglicans, the pentacostals, and the Byzantine Rite Catholics. Must be something to this. We might be talking the same thing. But that phrase would usually be interpreted to suggest that the environment, including the music, the artwork, the architecture, the attitudes of worshipers, is all about the promotion of a true beauty, a beauty that evokes or exemplifies or points to the holy, and that holiness reflects back.
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I just got to this thread - obviously a lack of recollection on my part (pun intended).
Here's a germane quote from Katherine Le Mee's book on chant:
“Rather than being an occasion for engaging the intellect, the Mass was a time for invoking the mysterious presence of God through acts of thanksgiving and praise. The traditional Christmas Mass therefore did not begin with the celebrant’s telling the congregation, “Today we are going to be speaking about and remembering the birth of Christ.” Instead, attention was immediately be drawn musically to the theme for the day: “Puer natus est nobis, et filius datus est nobis: cuius imperium super humerum eius.” ….
“The liturgy was an elaborately designed drama that proclaimed to worshippers not just the external story of the life of Christ but its inner meaning. Through the action of the Mass their lives were transformed in a profound and mysterious way.”
From Chant: The Origins, Form, Practice, and Healing Power of Gregorian Chant (New York: Bell Tower Books, 1994) by Katharine Le Mée, pp. 75-77
If the Mass is educational, we need to make sure that everyone keeps up with the class, is busy with saying, singing, and doing, and is instructed. If the purpose is experiential and transformational, it's a whole different liturgy. -
Can any explain to me precisely WHY two things can't seem to happen at once in the OF?
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I wouldn't say that two things can't happen at the same time in the OF. It seems to me that everything in the OF has to be a group activity. There is no room for individual action, and if it occurs, it is discouraged. It's like a classroom where we all have to be doing the same thing at the same time.
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Precisely, Jeffrey. Just yesterday at a staff meeting wherein "Liturgy" was the focal topic I offered that despite the obvious demarcations of the two major "liturgies" with the OF, and their substructures, the ideal is to avoid a "stop-start" syndrome, and to be so practiced and aware with one's own roles to effect the seamless fluidity of ritual. I'm pretty sure that can occur at any parish. We saw and heard it in Chicago, did we not?
For the record, this post was typed between classes at the school, and does not constitute a violation of job description usage. -
mjballou: "If the Mass is educational, we need to make sure that everyone keeps up with the class, is busy with saying, singing, and doing, and is instructed. If the purpose is experiential and transformational, it's a whole different liturgy."
Yes, that's the issue in a nutshell. Some of both, of course, which creates a certain tension; however, there is no beautiful art of any sort without tension. -
Ok, then, what precisely must happen to open two theaters within the OF? I can see the need for sotta voce prayers, yes. I'm not sure if that stretches rubrics or not. I'm wondering about other issues. For example: Introit/Kyrie, that beautiful dynamic in the EF. In the OF, it seems like there must be this big greeting thing that separates the two. Can anyone provide a clear plan for dealing with this? How precisely can we achieve the goal of two theaters in the OF?
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Jeffrey,
I've read your last post three times, and the only cogent answer I can think of is Mahrt's ideal: everything must be sung. Now, that said, I demure (sp?) to the reality that with under-endowed parishes, or mega-populated parishes with 20 weekend Masses, that solution's a pipe dream (pun intended.) I then retreat to the dictum that there must be, in every parish, a dedicated "solemn Mass" clearly identified and performed as such. Then it's up to the local ordinary to mandate that. And I don't see how they can ignore the very public and inexorable push towards ROTR, both stateside and under this papacy. Dignified, solemn and beautiful liturgy is "the way" out of the morass. -
Yes, but here is the thing. In the OF, when the singing takes place, nothing else takes place, e.g. at the Sanctus. The liturgy waits while it starts and finishes before anything else can happen. Not so in the EF. My question is: is the inherent in the structure of the OF or can it be changed?
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It's the Protestant model, Jeffrey. Everything stops for the music.
It's like the silence after readings. Who determines how long the pause should be? The reader, based upon her or his gut? The organist? The cantor?
What is "wrong" with the lector being in place for the reading? With the cantor approaching the pulpit during the end of the reading?
Can a cantor read the first reading, sing the psalm, read the second reading and sing the Alleluia? Why not? Why is the psalm to be sung by a different singer than the Alleluia as it is supposed to be?
How many cantors can tell you what the psalm is all about after they have sung it?
That may be the BIG issue. Readers and cantors receiving no education about what they are teaching by their words.
Lectors and cantors should have required courses for them to take and be tested upon.
To answer your question now that i have digressed.
It's the Hippy "let's all do everything together to show we are all equal" syndrome. The priest HAS to sing along to be one with the people.
It's all about laicizing the priest. -
The essential thing to remember is that the OF is not the EF. It was designed to be different.
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Charles, I withdraw my statement...after thinking over your post I think I was in error.
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We will have to disagree on that one. I believe the Novus Ordo of Paul VI was designed to be different. Also, the U.S. bishops have accentuated and reinforced those differences. However, the Mass of Vatican II - 1965 English Missal - is much more like the EF.
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Alas, "one thing at a time" is probably part of the overly didactic approach of the reformers.
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Jeffrey, the only possible relevant mention I see in SC is a rule that, whenever possible, public liturgy is to be preferred to private. Fron this principle it might be argued that speaking aloud is preferred to sotto voce, which would usually eliminate overlap.
But that argument is a stretch. -
yes, I see what you mean. But let me ask this in a different way. If we restored the sotto voce would that also restore the entire two-theater structure? Is that the only issue? I'm asking sincerely because I'm not enough of a rubricist to know if there are other structural issue at work.
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There are some sotto voce prayers in the OF, which are supposed to said "secreto" or "submissa voce":
Before the Gospel:
"Cleanse my heart and my lips..."
Afterward:
"By the words of the Gospel..."
In the preparation of the gifts:
"Blessed are you, Lord God..."
"By the mingling of this water and wine..."
"Blessed are you, Lord God..."
"In spiritu humilitatis et in animo contrito..." (is there any English counterpart to this?)
"Wash me, Lord, from my sins..."
At the priest's communion:
"May the Body of Christ bring me to everlasting life."
"May the Blood of Christ..."
At the purification:
"Quod ore sumpsimus, Domine, ..." -
Fair point!
Here is the number from Sacrosantum Concilium:
27. It is to be stressed that whenever rites, according to their specific nature, make provision for communal celebration involving the presence and active participation of the faithful, this way of celebrating them is to be preferred, so far as possible, to a celebration that is individual and quasi-private.
This applies with especial force to the celebration of Mass and the administration of the sacraments, even though every Mass has of itself a public and social nature. -
what's the big deal about the priest singing the sanctus with the people? the sanctus is part of the Eucharistic prayer. It's not that "everything stops for the music" -- the sanctus is PART OF THE MASS. having everything stop for the music happens with random hymns inserted at various points in the Mass that don't belong.
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Jam, there is a difference between having the priest sing the sanctus with the people and the priest singing the sanctus.
No hymns stop anything in the Mass. All hymns in the Mass, except for the rare sequence hymn, are sung during processions: entrance, offertory, communion, -
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean, Noel. The first thing you said.
And with my last statement I was just taking a jab at hymns because they replace propers, but you're right, they don't just freeze the Mass or anything. But I really don't see how the Sanctus can possibly interrupt any liturgical action, because it IS a liturgical action.
I'm trying to think of what happens during the Sanctus in Divine Liturgy. The Priest says the prayer before and after it aloud, and sings the Sanctus with us... I think. The deacon's moving... hmm... I dunno. It's a part of the Eucharistic prayer though. If the priest says the Eucharistic prayer aloud, that's just a part of it... -
I should have been more clear. A friened wrote that at his church: "He sings into the mic like Mr. Caruso of Thomas Day's book. I asked him to back off because I need to be able to HEAR the people in order to LEAD the people. Even without the mic, his voice is dominant."
When a priest has a microphone on or sings loudly without a microphone HE becomes the center of attention, like a song leader at a microphone. Many of them think it helps the singing, but they are wrong. It helps when there is no organ or choir or when people are not strong signers to have someone sing out for the first Sanctus, but the cound has to be that of the community singing.
When a priest leads the singing, he is assuming a role. -
FNJ,
No truer words e'er spoken. -
whoa, I'm not talking about the priest leading the singing. That's weird.
I paid attention in Divine Liturgy today. During the Sanctus the priest waves a cloth over the holy gifts. Our priest here is alone, but if there were concelebrating priests or deacons, they'd all be waving the cloth together. Way back in the day this was necessary to keep insects away when the gifts were uncovered.
At my home parish, the priest says the whole eucharistic prayer out loud, so this is what they're doing during the sanctus and maybe some other things around the altar, but no speaking. At my current parish, however, the priest only says half or so of the eucharistic prayer aloud, so while the choir sings the sanctus he's saying another part of the prayer under the singing, but you can still kinda hear him if you're close to the front--I actually really like that effect, of the priest speaking quietly under the singing, and how it blends together so nicely.
so in the OF perhaps there could be some kind of altar-related thing for the priest to do? or he could just keep the same posture he's been keeping in the eucharistic prayer and have the sanctus be just a part of it. -
Friends, we need to be very, very clear...when discussing Liturgy. Are we talking about the EF, OF or other Orthodox Liturgies. Jam, I figure that you are talking about Orthodox liturgy today and also OL at your home parish? We need to be clear because otherwise we will get somebody asking their OF priest why he isn't shaking a cloth.
Reading up on this practice and the fans and seeing pictures of Orthodox liturgies brings home to me finally why our Orthodox brethren and sistern on this list who are also involved in OF liturgies seem at times to get upset.
In comparison to OR, all too oftenthe OF can be more like a Methodist church service than a Catholic one... -
we are HIGH Methodist, thank you very much! ;-)
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Methodist, indeed! There ARE high Methodists: they copy the ways of Anglo-Catholics. Their Anglican chant is often enviable.
However, it is not at all accurate to liken the OF to any variety of Protestant 'service'. There are NO Protestants who would find any of our eucharistic prayers (even the least worthy of them) palatable. Nor would they view favourably the Marian aspects which seem to survive quite well even in the most low church of Catholic parishes. Those who imagine that the Catholic Church is becoming (or, has become) protestantised have no concept of the vast differences between the Catholic and the Protestant worlds.
None of this is to sympathise to any degree with the abhorrent liturgical praxis which is shamefully typical throughout most of the Catholic Church. -
"Those who imagine that the Catholic Church is becoming (or, has become) protestantised have no concept of the vast differences between the Catholic and the Protestant worlds."
Indeed. I've rarely seen a protestant church with any of the "protestantized" elements of the typical OF. -
yes, I was talking about Orthodox liturgies, and will always remember to footnote that in from now on. I do attend EF Masses about once a month, and OF Masses from time to time as my Catholic friends convince me to go, so I will from now on say what kind of liturgy I am talking about.
And Mr. Osborn, protestants have theological troubles with Catholics, but many Catholic "liturgies" have borrowed very unCatholic elements from protestant worship... Jesus rock... celebrant-centered attention... iconoclastic churches and altars... wooden patens and glass chalices... standing around the altar holding hands... hymns rather than propers... interrupting the Mass for announcements or mini-homilies at the celebrant's discretion... need I go on?
"Those who imagine that the Catholic Church is becoming (or, has become) protestantised have no concept of the vast differences between the Catholic and the Protestant worlds."
From an Eastern perspective, Catholicism and Protestantism are just two sides of the same Western coin. First of all, I don't see the differences as being so vast after all; perhaps you answer questions differently, but you're still asking the same questions in the first place. Everything Protestant came out of Roman Catholicism somehow--it's all just good ideas taken to heretical extremes. (Like GK Chesterton says, protestants are all just "Catholics gone wrong.") While there are, yes, differences between Catholic thought and Protestant thought, there is so much more Protestant thought passing itself off as Catholic in this ecumenical, liturgically-confused, secular-liberal-society kind of era we live in nowadays.
I grew up protestant, and I'm telling you, Noel is right. There are some OF Masses (not all! just some) which are much more like protestant services than the Orthodox Divine Liturgy.
As for this thread, I want to hear more about this "two-theater" structure, and what it means, and what it is like...! Mr. Tucker? I'm intrigued by this. -
"Those who imagine that the Catholic Church is becoming (or, has become) protestantised have no concept of the vast differences between the Catholic and the Protestant worlds."
Go to a TLM Mass. Go to the church you work at. Go to a Roman Catholic church of today....what do you see?
Irreverence for the Blessed Sacrament is a good place to start the conversation, no?
Music for the emotions rather than the intellect. "On Eagles Wings"
Lay people distributing the Blessed Sacrament when a priest and deacon are present.
Youth ministers...
Lay people with little or no education in the liturgy planning liturgies.
Women and men dancing during the liturgy.
Clowns saying Mass.
Puppets in the Mass.
A cantor queen or knight hogging the microphone crooning the responsorial psalm.
A reader "interpreting" the readings with raised eyebrows and long pauses for emphasis.
Eulogies at Requiem Masses.
Lay people conferring blessings....
"The geographical parish I live in features the 'assembly' praying to 'Our Father and Mother in heaven'."
"Celebrating Mother Earth at the Newman Center"
[I have been to a few Episcopal and Lutheran services that were truer to the Roman Catholic liturgy than most Masses of today.] -
And what Catholic Mass mentions Mary aside from Marian Feastdays?
The wording of the Mass would not be objected to in many Protestant communion services, of course the WOULD be complaining about having communion every quarter. -
I feel a little impatient after reading that list. I think it's overwrought. It lists rare deviations that most of us have never witnessed personally, or at least not in the past 10-15 years. That is to say: some of them have been corrected more or less permanently. Now, I have seen some of the worst ones via net videos, but that's not what you asked about, Noel. You asked about what we see in our parishes.
So here's my response to the list:
Irreverence for the Blessed Sacrament is a good place to start the conversation, no?
What sort of irreverence do you mean? Around here, most people do genuflect; on the other hand, some people talk too much.
Music for the emotions rather than the intellect. "On Eagles Wings"
In most parishes, junk music reigns. In a few, things are better.
Lay people distributing the Blessed Sacrament when a priest and deacon are present.
Do you mean "present and idle"? I seldom see priests or deacons idle during the distribution of Holy Communion, except for reasonable cause (infirmity). I can think of one instance in the past year that I considered improper.
Youth ministers...
What about 'em?
Lay people with little or no education in the liturgy planning liturgies.
It probably still happens in uber-liberal places, but I don't think it's that common any more.
Women and men dancing during the liturgy.
Haven't seen this in a parish for, oh, 10-15 years. Since then, I saw it once at a conference.
Clowns saying Mass.
Man, that's stupid, but to be realistic: I've never seen this in person. Have you?
Puppets in the Mass.
Nope, I haven't had to suffer through that.
A cantor queen or knight hogging the microphone crooning the responsorial psalm.
Never in any parish I attended. I've seen it on TV in big-event Masses.
A reader "interpreting" the readings with raised eyebrows and long pauses for emphasis.
Method-acting lectors? Pretty rare here.
Eulogies at Requiem Masses.
Alas, these are aplenty at funerals.
Lay people conferring blessings....
You mean pretending to confer blessings, right? :-) I may have seen misguided EMHCs lay a hand on someone's shoulder; that's about it. It's not common.
"The geographical parish I live in features the 'assembly' praying to 'Our Father and Mother in heaven'."
Nope, not at any parish I know.
"Celebrating Mother Earth at the Newman Center"
Nix.
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So that adds up to about three yeses and ten noes.
For the sake of comparison, Noel, which of those things do *you* actually see in your parish -- say, within the past five years? Probably your experience is worse than mine, but I'll be surprised if you have actually witnessed *all* of those abuses at least once.
And if you haven't heard a mention of our Lady at Mass other than on Her feasts, things are quite bad at your parish. The Eucharistic Prayer in every single Mass mentions the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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To balance things after reading Noel's despairing catalog of barbarities committed over the past 45 years, here's the music from two OF Masses last Sunday at St Mary Star of the Sea in Beverly, MA.
The principal parish Mass, under the direction of Frederick MacArthur, had these works:
Entrance: Lift High the Cross
Kyrie: Mass XVI, with simple invocations
Gloria: Heritage Gloria (Alstott)
Psalm: from "Lectionary Psalms" (GIA); SATB antiphon; cantor on verses (Gelineau tone).
Alleluia: setting by Theodore Marier for ordinary time (I)
Offertory anthem: O Clap Your Hands (Rutter)
Sanctus: People's Mass (Vermulst, arr. Hytrek)
Memorial Acclamation: "Dying, you destroyed..." (John Lee, in Worship III)
Amen: Heritage Mass (Alstott)
Our Father: chanted per the Sacramentary tone (Father *surprised* us)
Agnus: Mass XVIII
Communion antiphon: setting by Fr. Columba Kelly, OSB, sung by the cantor
Anthem: Praise, O Praise (Martin How, RSCM)
Recess: Rejoice! The Lord is King
Postlude: the Widor Toccata, with tympani
The evening Mass with the monthly chant schola was directed by Forum member "olbash":
Introit: Dignus est Agnus
Kyrie: Mass XVI
Gloria: Mass VIII
Psalm: from "Lectionary Psalms" (GIA); SATB antiphon; cantor on verses (Gelineau tone).
Alleluia: setting by Theodore Marier for ordinary time (I)
Offertory chant: Postula a me
Sanctus: Mass XVIII
(The priest chanted Eucharistic Prayer II in Latin.)
Memorial Acclamation: "Mortem tuam..."
Agnus: Mass XVIII
Communion: Sedebit Dominus, with verses
Recess: Rejoice! The Lord is King
Postlude: The guest organist, impromptu, played Worthy is the Lamb from Messiah.
--- -
The only one from that list I see on Sundays is the extraordinary ministers of communion. The pastor suffers from gout, sciatica, and has had both knees replaced. He needs the help. Our last Sunday 10:00 a.m. mass at Holy Ghost Church in Knoxville, TN contained:
Entrance: To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King
Kyrie: Mass XVI
Gloria: Caroll Thomas Andrews
Psalm: The Lord is King for Evermore - A Gregory Murray
Gospel Acclamation: Alleluia by R. Twynham
Offertory: Thanks be to Thee by Handel - sung by the choir
Other Mass Parts: Schubert Deutsche Messe (in English)
Communion Antiphon from the Simple Choral Gradual
Communion hymn: Jesus Shall Reign Where'er the Sun
Communion filler music: Adagio from Fantasie by Cesar Franck
Recessional hymn: Rejoice, the Lord is King
Poslude: Fond D'Orgue - Louis Marchand
Others may view it differently, but I don't see anything wrong with any of this. We had no dancing nuns or wild-eyed, gray-haired flower children running around the place, either. -
Tell me which of these things you would have found prior to 1960 in any Roman Catholic church?
And why not. These are all things that are now known and many partly due to the viral nature of the internet.
I am not in a position to discuss things I have seen in the last 5 years, sorry.
The liturgies that you have listed and things you have related show that there are places where things are above the norm and this is wonderful -
Youth Ministers may seem wonderful...but why should a person with no education in liturgy be leading students?
If the center of being a Catholic is the Eucharist, the people leading should be committed to sharing the Liturgy rather than planning ski trips. In the old days there were youth clubs and the associate pastor was a frequent visitor...not above shooting a game of pool or throwing darts.
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