Thank you so much. It's the Recessional for an upcoming Ordination here, and two vss are just not enough. Now I know what to look for- I'm sure I have that octavo lying around here somewhere.


Donna

Randolph No, wait- the above is the second verse printed in a past Ordination. What's the middle verse then?

Donna

Let's see if we can confuse each other even more. I should never have mentioned Worship III. The order of Michael Perry's text (1982 copyright) is:

vs. 1 "O God beyond . . ."

vs. 2 " The flower of . . ."

vs. 3 "Then hear, O gracious . . ."

Randolph, I believe is correct. Proulx's setting attests.
However (and I really would tread lightly, with Kathy's imagination as candlelight), I have always found the phrase, "Christ, the man from heaven...," unwieldy in all respects, and in this commercial era almost comical.

Might this work as a second stanza for O God beyond All Praising? Specifically for the Rite of Dedication of a Church. Any constructive suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks!

O God, we are your people,
We follow in your way,
And know your loving presence,
Creating each new day.
This building is your temple,
We come to hear your Word,
To share the heav'nly banquet:
Your precious body, Lord.
And go from here rejoicing,
To all the gospel bring,
To serve each other in your name,
Proclaiming you are King.

JMC, I took a crack at a revision, which gives a supplicatory character. Further suggestions/corrections welcome; try it also with "thee/thy/thou" "shall", etc.

(FYI, "O God beyond All Praising" has been chosen as our diocesan hymn for the Year of Faith, and we neither have a cathedral here nor will we in the near term; in fact a new university chapel is further along than a cathedral.)

(Links go to subsequent points of discussion.)

As we, your own disciples/As your adopted children/As we, your sons and daughters
strive heav'nward/continue/strive onward in the way
the truth and life of Jesus,/of Jesus Christ our Savior,
O Father, (we now pray/now we pray)
your Spirit bless this temple,
wherein will sound your Word,
wherein will sins be pardoned,
(and/where) you will be adored;
wherein we (will/shall) (with/in) (gladness/wonder)
receive your Son, our King,
from where/and whence to every nation
the Gospel we will bring.

I like this idea (and Mark's correction to it). There's also a sort of inconsistency about who is being addressed. The first line speaks of us as "your own disciples", so it implies we are addressing the Lord Jesus; but then the rest is addressed to the Father.

Perhaps "we shall"? You're adding a verse to a British text anyway.

I don't think "heav'nward" is ideal: it's hard to pronounce. Also, it seems to create an odd metaphor with "way": are we on a road moving ahead or are we going upward? Possible alternatives: "onward" or "homeward".

Additional verse for Dedication/Consecration of a Church (but not its anniversary). Though I suppose it could replace the middle verse.

y,n,y

The long list of subordinate clauses each starting with "wherein", "where", and "whence" is strained. Consider changing focus with something like this:

As we, your sons and daughters
strive onward in the way
of Jesus Christ our Savior,
O Father, now we pray
your Spirit bless this temple,
wherein will sound your Word,
wherein will sins be pardoned,
and you will be adored;
grant here that we with wonder
receive your Son, our King,
and that hence to every nation
his Gospel we may bring.

Especially since line 4 seems like a weak line, as if it were "padding".

Lines 4–5:
Heath, yes, I agree. Chonak, I was toying with "O Father, thee we pray" but decided against introducing one old second-person-familiar pronoun. Kathy: I also like how the draft has taken on some aspects of a revised-translation Collect. I'm not so keen on breaking the meter if a better solution presents itself.

I'm sure we could get rid of another occurrence of "wherein", e.g.:

…wherein will sound your Word,
our sins will be forgiven,
and you will be adored;…

but I do like how singable the word is. My memory of the Collect for Divine Mercy Sunday influenced my first take ("in what font…, by whose Spirit…, by whose Blood").*

*These Collects are so much more memorable now that they are sung regularly.

Maybe in this case the "we now pray" better expresses some sense of urgency than "now we pray"?…

Could we find a more prayerful word than "pray"? Instead of "we now pray", try "we beseech"?

The conventional third verse offered at the top by Randolph is a good option.

PaixGioiaAmor,

sorry, I thought I try haha. I will just accept that it is an end road here for the discussion on the revision. Chonak, thanks for the pointer. I don't know, I am still not comfortable with the third verse, I am referring to this one here,

The flower of earthly splendor
in time must surely die,
its fragile bloom surrender
to you, the Lord most high;

but hidden from all nature
th'eternal seed is sown--
though small in mortal stature,
to heaven's garden grown:

for Christ the man from heaven
from death has set us free,
and we through him are given
the final victory!

Still feels an awkward insert in between the original two verses. Particularly, "but hidden from all nature
th'eternal seed is sown--
though small in mortal stature,
to heaven's garden grown:

for Christ the man from heaven..."

I am glad there was a third verse putting Christ into the hymn, but it feels like it makes Christ a garden grown item lol. And also, it would be more accurate to say Christ the God-Man from heaven.." I get what the verse is trying to say though.

MrCopper, what are you referring to exactly?

thanks for your thoughts.

I frankly love the imagery of "Christ, the man from heaven." It puts Jesus Christ in the role of being fully human and fully God.

4. Do Catholics in the US have a higher opinion of this hymn than it actually deserves?

Interesting question, am interested in what prompted it?
Simple answer, IMO only, no. Its merit is self-evident despite origin.
From EBENEZAR to ENGELBURG one could rail pro or con whether a tune serves a text optimally. I don't think that either a worship demographic (USA or the Phillipines) nor a cultural "trait" inherent in a melody has any bearing upon the efficacy of a tune/text marriage.
That is not to say that certain genres contain examples where those cultural aspects seem to discourage usage because of the heighthened associations, such as JERUSALEM, SALVE FESTE DIES or SOMOS EL CUERPO DE CRISTO/PESCADOR DE HOMBRES, etc.

Got it, thanks. I think that THAXTED "took off" because of the Proulx concertato octavo which included the "2nd verse" not included in most hymnals. And because it had that sort of "embolism" factor with the choir assigned that verse, it gums up the consistency fo sho.
But the use of THAXTED is here to stay. I classify its coherence and attraction among other seminal melodies like FINLANDIA and KINGSFOLD, etc., tho' Kathy will argue the former as unworthy.
I don't audit other Christian hymnals regularly, but I would think the ratio of hymns to songs/choruses has drastically been diminished.

Interesting information. Interestingly, our Lutheran siblings have made their own hymn recently with the THAXTED tune as well. "Te Deum - We Praise You and Acknowledge You, O God" by Stephen Starke.

Block quote doesn't seem to be working today. The gods of Microsoft must be angry.

"I think it's overdone."

It may be overdone. It isn't the greatest of hymns, but many others are so much worse.

A new second stanza ("The flower of earthly splendor..."} was added at the request of Roman Catholic composer Richard Proulx who wished to write an anthem based on the text. Since it was written for a specific Sunday based on the reading for the day, I Corinthians 15, it is usually omitted in hymnals. The author recommended the hymn to be sung in relation to Communion without this stanza.

So, "The flower of earthly splendor..." stanza is indeed by Michael A. Perry.

I'm not at all happy with the suggested additional stanzas that do not have the rhyme scheme ABABCDCDEFEF of the Perry. The stanza just posted above by Perryw does indeed have the correct rhyme scheme and also fits well between the first two original verses (recall that the "new second stanza" ("The flower...") was itself an addition

If the original two stanzas were to be augmented by interpolating the stanza requested by the Perryw stanza and the one requested by Proulx, we would have the followimg 4 stanza hymn:

1. O God beyond all praising,
    we worship you today
and sing the love amazing
    that songs cannot repay;
for we can only wonder
    at every gift you send,
at blessings without number
    and mercies without end.
We lift our hearts before you
    and wait upon your Word,
we honor and adore you,
    our great and mighty Lord.

2. For at the cross of Jesus
    we see that love displayed,
As there he suffered for us,
    our sins upon him laid.
And three days later, rising,
    he triumphed o'er the grave,
That we may know, rejoicing,
    his mighty power to save;
To know of his forgiveness,
    to know his boundless grace;
And give us hope in darkness,
    that we will see his face.

3. The flower of earthly splendor
    in time must surely die,
its fragile bloom surrender
    to you, the Lord most high;
but hidden from all nature
    the eternal seed is sown -
though small in mortal stature,
    to heaven's garden grown:
for Christ, your gift from heaven,
    from death has set us free,
and we through him are given
    the final victory.

4. Then hear, O gracious Savior,
    accept the love we bring,
that we who know your favor
    may serve you as our King;
and whether our tomorrows
    be filled with good or ill,
we'll triumph through our sorrows
    and rise to bless you still:
to marvel at your beauty
    and glory in your ways,
and make a joyful duty
    our sacrifice of praise.

I noticed that “O God, Beyond All Praising” was recently sung as the recessional hymn at Justice Scalia’s funeral Mass. But the second stanza (“The flower…”) was not used, even though it may have been appropriate in this instance. Instead, a different final stanza was added to the THAXTED tune! This stanza is actually the Trinitarian hymn text (minus the refrain) of “O God, Almighty Father” by Capuchin Fr. Irvin Udulutsch, typically sung to the tune GOTT VATER SEI GEPRIESEN. Although the end rhymes are perfect, the rhyme scheme, however, does not follow Perry's original ABABCDCDEFEF scheme.

Someone posted the worship aid from the funeral on the internet, at the end of the following article:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/antonin-scalia-funeral-mass-program-219528#ixzz40iWBWUNv

Just an FYI.

thaxted-over rated and over used

I tend to agree, as much, if not most, of its popularity is presumably due to its being taken from The Planets.