How to FIX the "old lady wobble"
  • matthewwilkinson
    Posts: 10

    every Church musician is going to either need to sing, or help people sing. Dr. Stephen Austin, who I met at UNT, is the single most effective voice teacher I've ever worked with. He has a PhD in Vocal Science under Ingo Titze, and is a historian of vocal pedagogy. He's built huge careers, and is the only person I've ever heard explain how to get rid of the "old church lady wobble". We cover so much in this interview, you've got to check it out! it's a great primer on the mechanics of the voice as well as practical suggestions for fixing vocal faults

    https://youtu.be/Nr1OsSvSxSY?si=-thQX6x_yHJO9EsZ
    Every Singer, Choir Director, and Church Musician needs to hear this conversation (2).jpg
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  • matthewwilkinson
    Posts: 10
    from the Pursuit of Beauty youtube channel
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 888
    It’s not only old ladies who wobble...
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,077
    Get rid of the wobble? Kick 'em out of the choir!
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  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 254
    They really are such friendly voices....
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,099
    If it were not for those old ladies, many churches would not have a choir.
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    My old lady warbler is one of my favorite choir members. She's an absolute delight of a human being. It's true, we've quietly put aside a few recordings because of her participation, but I also wouldn't have it any other way. But I will give this a listen to see if I can better help direct her.
  • WillWilkin
    Posts: 55
    Is "old lady wobble" a technical term? It seems slang or maybe even derogatory. I can imagine it means unsteady pitch or volume, but this is just my best guess. Exactly what is "old lady wobble" and why would I spend time pursuing a source that uses such a term?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    .
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 522
    WillWilkin, I hear you. The phrase and the thinking behind it is obnoxious.

    In case you really don't know, it's vibrato. For some biological reason, women's voices seem to be worse affected than men's. (Possibly because choirs have so few men in the first place that more is forgiven of them!)

  • davido
    Posts: 1,269
    Wobble is a commonly used term among voice professionals for a wide vibrato.
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  • Felicia
    Posts: 176
    " For some biological reason, women's voices seem to be worse affected than men's."

    I'm not sure whether this is due to biology, or to physics, given that women's voices are higher-pitched, and the soprano voice usually carries the melody. I've heard a number of wobbly male voices, both tenors and basses.

    My understanding is that a slight, even vibrato naturally occurs in an adult voice with good breath support, and that an unpleasant wobble (where it actually affects the pitch) is usually the result of a loss of muscular control, such as occurs with age, or because of some tension somewhere. I once heard a singer who visibly had tension in his voice; his neck muscles were tight and his face was red, and he had a wide vibrato.

    It seems to me that a microphone magnifies a wobble.
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  • probe
    Posts: 288
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr1OsSvSxSY&t=2130s section 35:30 to 42:13.
    A 70-year old lady's wobble came from an uncontrolled tremor in the larynx.
    A year and a half of daily practice on O and OOO vowels and the chest register restored the voice of her 40s.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,721
    the higher the frequencies of voice the more noticeable it may be
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  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 226
    " For some biological reason, women's voices seem to be worse affected than men's."

    I'm not sure whether this is due to biology, or to physics, given that women's voices are higher-pitched, and the soprano voice usually carries the melody. I've heard a number of wobbly male voices, both tenors and basses.


    Some of it will be due to menopause. The drop in estrogen affects muscle bulk and tone, and naturally thins a lot of tissues in a woman's body. I would assume that includes the vocal folds and the entire vocal track.

    Men are also similarly affected by changes in hormones as they age, but it's not as pronounced as women because they don't have as significant of a hormonal shift. But they do have declining muscle tone and utility for similar reasons.
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  • matthewwilkinson
    Posts: 10
    yeah - it's not just vibrato. It's literal atrophy of the vocal folds that can be corrected through extensive exercising of the chest voice, as he explains in the interview.

    Also - some don't like the term "wobble", but.... everyone knows EXACTLY what i'm talking about when I say "wobble".

    I think he demonstrates that an older lady with the "wobble" doesn't actually have to be kicked out of the choir if they're willing to work in specific ways on the voice. I hope this information is useful. He's the single best vocal pedagogue I've ever worked with.
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  • davido
    Posts: 1,269
    This is a wonderful interview. Please watch and study this!
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  • TeresaH
    Posts: 57
    Why would you let choral singers use vibrato? The best choirs don't and they have much better sound and cohesiveness. Vibrato can make a choir sound like they are fighting each other. Just my thoughts from my training.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,269
    Vibrato is a natural function of the adult human voice.

    The best choirs are filled with the best singers who have excellent flexibility in and control of their voices. The rest of us mere mortals need to use the best vocal technique we can which can include vibrato as we look for freedom and release in vocal production.
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