Soldiers Fighting in Iraq...the inhumanity of OCP
  • LTC Fabrizio has contacted me from Iraq, looking for mp3's of music from the OCP Heritage Hymnal that he and 40 Catholic soldiers sing from. They do not have a guitarist, pianist or anyone who can accompany them.

    He asked where he might get this music.

    I contacted OCP and they verified that they do have mp3's available for download.

    Here is the record of OCP' response to my request that they provide these loyal Americans free downloads, and, as a veteran of the United States Army, this sickens me.

    -------------------------------------------------------------


    I am very sorry we don't have free downloads.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: noel jones [mailto:gedeckt@usit.net]
    Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:52 AM
    To: Theresa Karafotias
    Subject: Re: Hymn Search:Anthem by Tom Conry

    Great! Now since these are American soldiers who can authorize free downloads for them?


    On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Theresa Karafotias wrote:

    Go to http://www.ocp.org/mp3 and click Browse by song title. You will
    find a downloadable index of the Heritage hymns
    http://www.ocp.org/products/HM-P

    -----Original Message-----
    From: noel jones [mailto:gedeckt@usit.net]
    Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:15 AM
    To: Theresa Karafotias
    Subject: Re: Hymn Search:Anthem by Tom Conry

    They have the Heritage Hymnal...what mp3s might be available for then?

    noel
    On Aug 31, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Theresa Karafotias wrote:

    I am sorry, these track recordings are only available for a couple of
    children's hymnals.

    Theresa

    -----Original Message-----
    From: noel jones [mailto:gedeckt@usit.net]
    Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:13 AM
    To: Theresa Karafotias
    Subject: Re: Hymn Search:Anthem by Tom Conry

    Dear Theresa,

    It sounds like they are looking for CD's or mp3s they can download to
    sing with at Mass.

    I was thinking that you might be able to help them.

    Thank you for thinking about this.

    noel





    solainte2005@aol.com



    On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:49 PM, LTC Andrew Fabrizio wrote:

    Explain what you are looking for: words only or music or both.
    I am hoping for downloadable piano music that my congregation can
    sing to while stationed here in Iraq. No piano or guitar
    player...just some singers!

    Noel Jones, AAGO
    423 887-7594
    noeljones@usit.net



    Friends, life is short and we do not have much time to gladden the
    hearts of those who travel with us; so be swift to love and make
    haste to be kind.




    Noel Jones, AAGO
    423 887-7594
    noeljones@usit.net

    www.thecatholichymnal.com

    Friends, life is short and we do not have much time to gladden the
    hearts of those who travel with us; so be swift to love and make haste
    to be kind.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Isn't the use of recorded music at Mass forbidden?
  • Yes, along with using real bullets.

    Get your head out of the foxhole! (typed with a smile)
  • How much will it cost to get them what they need from OCP? Sounds like a worthy cause.

    Or, would they settle for midi files? I've been meaning to explore that function of LilyPond lately...
  • Well, it would bankrupt OCP to do this, as they get $0.99 for each song.

    Bankrupt....that reminds me, why did the assets of OCP not appear in the bankruptcy of that diocese?
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    If you can forward me LTC Fabrizio's email address I'm in touch with somebody at OCP who can help.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,003
    Some one, perhaps the actual military personnel in the field, should contact the Office of the Archdiocese for the Military Services. If there are supplies necessary for the deployed personnel, they should take care of it. Maybe more of us should contribute to them, since they are not our Diocese, but the Military. Maybe we should offer whatever CMAA can to them, even through the Archdiocese. Maybe that's even a good thing for CMAA to do within RC Church politics.
  • If the person at OCP wants to send me his email, I will copy it to the Lieutenant Colonel. noeljones@usit.net
  • The best part is....downloads cost OCP nothing...so the $0.99 is for Intellectual Property.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,193
    OCP is supposed to be "not for profit."

    This would also be a work of mercy and charity for them, wouldn't it?

    Shame on OCP. Shame.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    If there is shame to be issued, it should not be on OCP. Neither is there any inhumanity involved. Simply, most likely, a low level clerk who is unaware of their corporate policies.

    According to my OCP contact: "We'll be happy to send them some mp3s. We get lots of similar requests from our service people overseas and are glad to help in this small way."

    So let's tone down the rhetoric a bit. These are real people trying to do the best they can according to their abilities. Get me LTC Fabrizio's address and I'll pass it along and let them work things out directly. Forgive me for being reluctant to provide my contact's email, but under the tenor of the title given this thread, I think that it should be understandable.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,193
    Sorry, prior, but the OCP staff isn't big enough to warrant an excuse of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

    Here's what they post at their customer serivce page:

    Our highly-trained and knowledgeable staff will take your orders, explain different products and programs, or just talk to you about how things are going in your parish - whatever your need, you'll find an attentive ear.


    They have a total of 10 customer service reps, one specifically for military accounts and two for Spanish-speaking customers.

    I find it hard to believe that out of 10 reps, supposedly highly-trained and knowledgeable, the one who Noel got wouldn't know what your contact knew about the availability of free downloads to military personnel.
  • Priorstf,

    Standing up for OCP? Well, let me enlighten you. This person, when asked permission to copy hymns for a choir that was short on 4 part choral books from OCP and broke and knowing that the church had an annual account for at least 600 books, denied that permission....The choir had reached 46 members, only had 25 of the OCP Choral Comprehensive books and were getting complaints from members who did not have access to music for their parts.

    At that point the director of music had been paying for all music and copying for the choir personally for 10 months...

    So that permission was denied, but this person kindly offered to send the church, at no charge for the books or shipping, 45 copies of The Choir Book.

    "The Choir Book is a favorite choir resource, with 144 traditional hymns set in two and four-part arrangements." Price $5 each.

    Free.

    Paying customers.

    Having had that experience, I thought this was the person to contact. And notice my careful wording, "Great! Now since these are American soldiers who can authorize free downloads for them?"

    I didn't ask her to do it, just wanted to know who could do it.

    Come to think of it, if they are active military using the Heritage Hymns, then they ARE customers. Something's just not right about this.

    Active military in the line of fire.
  • If your contact is unwilling to be the savior for these people, musically, by having me forward his address to them, this falls into shadowy business behind the scenes and it does not belong here.

    People are not going to criticize someone who makes a wrong right.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    My sole interest in this is getting music to a military unit overseas. If that is yours, please send me the colonel's address.
  • No. OCP should do this. They can afford to, they give away grants every year, and the first one on the list was to one of their staff composers...

    The military deserves better than getting stuff through the back door through the friend of a friend.

    [Rock and roll band plane crashes, they all arrive in front of St. Peter and the Golden Gates. "Is this where we go in?" "No." Answers St. Peter.

    "So we are, (gulp) going to the other place?"

    "No, no," says St. Peter, "You don't understand, you've made it to Heaven...but you're a band, so you load in the back door."

    People are not going to criticize someone who makes a wring right.

    And don't think that I am coming down on Theresa...she's stating company policy. There are people at OCP who love what they are doing, even though they don't like the music.

    priorst, this is a matter of policy. The policy would seem to be wrong.
  • [I've just been accused, off list, of keeping music from the soldiers in Iraq and told that the ball is in my court.]

    I'm confused. I thought I was trying to get them the music they want. Possibly did not have enough coffee this morning.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    Well, don't assume the worst about OCP's policy, Noel (I can't believe I'm typing this). After all, if you have a choice between malice and error as explanations for someone's conduct, the odds are on error most of the time.

    If you don't feel free to give the LTC's address to prior by e-mail, how about asking him?
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    agree that a rush to judgement is not in order. Not charitable. Not necessarily accurate. A bit snarky to boot.

    The internet is not really the place to OUT people, other Christians especially, especially before all other channels are exhausted, especially as it is just too easy to do that and the damage of an "overshoot" is a real possibility.

    I don't feel sorry for any Christians that are not resourceful enough to do without Rory for a weekend or two. I lead a military base music group/service for a while. Stop the crocodile tears. Where is the chaplain in all of this. What about PD and other Catholic resources. What is this crazed hate for this liberal bunch in Oregon, who are slipping in the polls. C'mon man, you are better than that.
  • OCP already has the LTC's email address.

    So do all of you...so why am I getting less than glowing (though they are hot) private emails? [last week I got one saying that by refering to head hunters euphemistically as people with bones through their noses I was guilty of making a racist comment....so I changed it and apologized to the real tribe of headhunters on this list.

    But, c'mon people, they are not called headhunters because their skin might be darker than other peoples. IT'S BECAUSE THEY KILLED PEOPLE AND SHRUNK THEIR HEADS!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    If anything, couldn't we do something to get them access to just the least-bad OCP material? :-)
  • One of their emails:

    Every week I get a list of hymns that are recommended. We have the Heritage Missal that we use for church.

    For instance, this week we will try to sing
    Lead Me Lord
    Anthem (By Tom Conry)
    City of God

    Others that we have tried are
    To Be Your Bread
    Bread of Life
    Taste and See
    Blest are They
    Lord of Glory
    Many and Great
    We are Called (Haas)
    I am the Light of the World
    On Eagles Wings
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    "Anthem" by Tom Conry? Isn't there a Geneva Convention rule against that?
  • "What is this crazed hate for this liberal bunch in Oregon, who are slipping in the polls."

    We must be talking about two different bunches of carrots here because the one that I am talking about is owned by the Catholic Church and publishes music with lyrics that do not consistently reflect the theology of the Catholic Church, and promotes and sells music which does not sound like anything the Catholic church has ever been associated with in its history. Popular music styles, which have been banned over and over and over again....

    Chonak: GOOD ONE!
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    Some of what you say is correct, FNJ,

    but they are being watched and criticized and they are not going to continue to be the "force" they have been, barring a sea change in their mindset and modus operandi. They are thus "slipping in the polls." They are liberal, yes? and maybe a bit "crazed," yes? as they grew to their point of preeminence in crazed times..Oh sorry, it was you with the crazed hate, oh well, takes one to know one... Their time, be they or you crazed or not, is wrapping up..

    Don't know if we can say technically that they are "owned" by the RCC, though it is probably not totally inaccurate to say that, either. That was news to me.
  • I know that I am pathetic and now crazed, your sentence:

    "Don't know if we can say technically that they are "owned" by the RCC, though it is probably not totally inaccurate to say that, either."

    Makes no sense....
  • Mr. Z
    Posts: 159
    Yes, non committal - berry much so... But not making sense? Well it does make sense to say it does not not make sense, though you might not say it makes sense; makes sense? By the way, who's on first?

    That just means that I don't have the time nor inclination to find out the technicalities of church "ownership" of "not for profit" corporationsm. though indeed, you may be right. That would indeed surprise me and add another layer of meaning to reform of the reform, liturgical abuse, etc. There are priests, bishops and cardinal on their BOD, so they may or may not technically "own" this entity. Lawyers? Chime in.

    Chonak
    Anthem" by Tom Conry? Isn't there a Geneva Convention rule against that?

    That is one of the funniest things I have seen on the internet in some time. I am not sure about Geneva, though it sounds right, but I think that the ASPCA has it in its anti cruelty manifesto that "Anthem" not be played in the vicinity of canines and other animals with sensitive hearing, though I guess frogs are not on the list. Just kidding!!!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    According to its year 2000 IRS filings, OCP is a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation that operates to support the Catholic Church; it had $26M in revenue in 1999 and gave $454K to the Archdiocese of Portland, its "parent organization". The President of the corporation was the Archbishop of Portland.

    So I suppose it's fair to say that OCP is owned by the Archdiocese of Portland.

    Source: the charity-reporting site guidestar.org.

    ---
    As for "Anthem", I know they had to stop playing it at Gitmo.
  • Yes, it's playing is cruel and constant punishment to Catholic ears.
  • So, priostf.

    Did your friend at OCP take care of this matter, or do we have to begin raising $ to buy mp3's for the soldiers?
  • Sans your assistance with an address I contacted Lieutenant Colonel Fabrizio's unit and have put them in direct contact. I believe that they will have the music they need.

    By the way, it's not a "friend" at OCP. (The only person I know who was ever at any of the big 3 publishers is a former editor now a diocesan cathedral choir director.) In this case I made a simple 30-second phone call, asked whom I might speak to about the situation, stated the case clearly, and got an instant positive response. It seemed so much easier this way.
  • The email address to LTC Fabrizio is and has been at the top of this page, which is why I said:

    "OCP already has the LTC's email address.

    So do all of you..."

    It was up there all the time...
  • 'why did the assets of OCP not appear in the bankruptcy of that diocese?'
    A question I've long wondered as well, FNJ.

    Maybe someone here could shed some light on this.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,331
    It's a separate corporation.