Does anyone out there direct a parish children's choir? If so...I have a few questions.
  • kas
    Posts: 9
    Hi,

    I am the director of our Catholic parish's children’s choir, which recently lost its assistant director. The group accepts children from grades 2-12, and we sing for Christmas Eve and Easter Sunday. We prepare a 30-minute prelude for both services, and rehearse 7 Sundays before.

    As per Catholic Diocesan policy, one adult is not allowed to work with a group of children, so for the past 10 years I’ve been fortunate to have had one of our parishioners who is also a talented vocalist to serve as my assistant; however, she can no longer do it for health reasons. She did have PA clearances being that she also taught in our PREP classes.

    So my question is: if you direct a similar type of group, how do you handle it in terms of needing a 2nd person that should also have clearances? Also, if there is a helper, is it a paid or voluntary job? Any info at all relative to working with children's choir would be greatly appreciated! My biggest issue is that, being a bass, I can't sing the soprano parts with the kids, so the lady that has been helping me was able to do that.

    Thanks,
    Keith
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,041
    In my case, most of the parents choose to stay for the duration. Makes it easier on me.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,162
    I require a couple parents to stay in the room to help with crowd control.
    If you have a school, you will usually find that some of the parents will have their clearances because they are teachers or aids, or coach CYO basketball or scouts or were chaperones on a field trip.
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 136
    I ran a children's choir for a while, and occasionally I had to be the lone adult working with the kids.

    1. Be in an open/public space. I would opt to practice on the main floor with the piano instead of up in the choir loft with the organ. If you were in a separate room (such as a rehearsal room), keep the door open so others can see/hear what you're doing.

    2. Encourage parents to stay. Encourage a parent to help. Ask parents to take turns chaperoning, make it clear that this is so the choir can run to satisfy requirements.

    Do all people working with kids need their clearances? Or just to be alone? I know for school stuff, I don't need to get mine if I am with staff (i.e. field trip helper, or if I come into the classroom to practice a performance with the kids where I am the accompanist, etc).

    These positions for us are exclusively voluntary, so I can't speak as to the payment side. For vocal modeling, is there someone you can ask to make recordings of the soprano parts?
  • kas
    Posts: 9
    Thanks for the quick replies. We rehearse in the church sanctuary in the choir area near the organ. In the past I have had a few parents take turns staying at rehearsal, but haven't used any parents once I had my assistant. I seem to recall that all of the parents who used to sit in were also PREP teachers and so had clearances.

    I'm confused in that my priest changed his mind from what he told me a few weeks ago. My longterm assistant, after she got sick, was replaced by one of our good soprano adult choir members who did the whole Advent season with me. However, she didn't have clearances. But, the priest said it was ok because I was there (and do have them). Now, today though, he tells me that anybody who helps will need to have them, so that confuses me as to why the change? He does change his mind rather frequently sometimes though on certain things. Surely makes it harder to find someone. A quick search on this DOES show that any adults working with kids must all have clearances, so what we did with the substitute assistant was fudging it. I believe he thought it was ok because that lady also worked in a local community theatre with children, although I don't believe she had clearances. Moot point since we got through Christmas Eve and she said she can't help going forward. As it turned out, she wound up in the ER on Christmas Eve morning and so I had to scramble to find a third person to fill in! Luckily, another of our adult choir members is a public school music teacher so no problem.

    As for recording vocal lines, we rehearse with my laptop using internet links to our arrangements, so the kids hear all the parts that way. Then, later in the rehearsal schedule, I substitute the laptop for recordings of the accompaniments that I did previously on our organ. So the other part of the assistant's job is to direct the kids during anything that I'm accompanying on the organ.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,284
    Where are you?

    I don’t always agree with diocesan policy and think that it is poorly crafted so as to make my situation difficult, but the diocese should have someone to settle this so that pastors don’t do stuff like this.
  • rvisser
    Posts: 85
    Regarding singing their parts...if you have older girls (or even a strong boy soprano) in your choir, you can have them sing the parts in the treble range for the younger kids. As a soprano, I have this difficulty directing middle school boys, but in reverse. If the boys aren't intuitively singing down an octave from me, and I can't sing in their range, I have one of the stronger boys sing it to demonstrate.

    I now teach in a school, but in my years of directing parish youth choirs I had a volunteer assistant. She did not have musical skills, but was great with kids (retired teacher). She took care of behavior issues if they arose, helped pass out music, helped with snacks, and made sure all the kids were picked up afterwards. Volunteers like this are worth their weight in gold if you can find one!

  • kas
    Posts: 9
    Matthew...I'm in Berks County, PA and so under the Allentown Diocese.
    Rvisser - the issue is moreso just to provide the vocal support for all the kids singing the soprano line (which is most of the choir). Right now I only have a few who sing the alto parts. I sing with them on those parts. We do mostly SA arrangements although I also use SATB and just pretty much ignore the male parts. Agreed on a good volunteer. I had one, but she had a psychotic break of some sort a few months ago. It's sad, really. Not sure if she'll be back or not.

    All this brings up another question - how does one go about getting some of the kids to start learning the alto parts (let alone want to do it....eveyone wants to sing the melody, although in the case of the one girl (12th grader) she determined last year already that some of the stuff feels too high for her, so she really wants to sing the alto parts and has been doing quite well. I have another girl who's very capable of singing alto also but simply doesn't want to. Not sure how to handle that situation either. This is church, after all, not school. My background is all instrumental as far as my teaching career - did elementary band for 34 years.
  • Church or school, I don't think it makes a huge difference as to how you motivate the kids. They have to want to sing what you are asking them to sing and they have to want to listen to your instruction. Finally, you--not they--are the adult in charge. You have an excellent background in elementary band. Don't feel shy to pull tricks out of your hat and see what works.

    That said, here's my choral specialist brain on the matter of assigning parts in children's choir. With kids up until about the age of 11, there's pretty predictable developmentally appropriate singing ranges. After that, vocal categorization begins to make sense. However, I'd still shy away from siphoning kids into fachs, as their adult voices won't settle until their mid-20s. Nothing makes me roll my eyes like the audacity of a 16-year-old boldly telling me, "I'm an alto." Between the ages of 13 and 23, I sang (in various professional and semi-professional capacities): soprano 2, alto 1, alto 2, soprano 1, alto 1, soprano 1 again, and alto 1 again. It is healthy for kids' musicianship to sing a variety of outer and inner parts, and using the verbiage of "you are singing the alto part on this song" rather than "you are an alto" may help them get over their resistance to singing a different part.

    With the age group I spend the most time with (8-13 year olds), I divide them by birth month and adjust as necessary. There is an immediate sense of buy-in when they are placed on a "team" with other Jan-June/July-Dec babies. ("Raise your hand if you were born in _______ months. Okay, you're singing the soprano line. Go!") I've never had a complaint. If one part is decidedly weaker than the other, I'll move a couple of strong singers around.
    Thanked by 2davido Abbysmum
  • rvisser
    Posts: 85
    @HildegardeVonBingen - I like your idea for dividing vocal parts. Right now I am letting my students self-select into the alto part. I only have one girl who sings alto specifically because of her vocal range (super low speaking voice...goes off pitch easily in the soprano range). The rest just volunteered (which gives me maybe 5 out of 80 students in the grade 3-8 range).

    @kas - One option if you don't have adult sopranos to support your students is soloing out the melody on the organ. Having the melody played on an 8' principal or perhaps several flute stops gives them something to listen to and be supported by.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,412
    I believe a combination of affirmation and gentle challenge can be effective. If you feel a child would be well suited to the alto line, you might encourage them by saying something like:

    “Many singers can carry the melody, but singing a harmony line requires strong musicianship and careful listening. I think you have the musical ability to do that well, and I would really value your help on the alto part.”

    You might also frame it as an opportunity for growth:

    “The melody often feels comfortable, but harmony can be more demanding. I think you’re capable of handling that responsibility, and I’d like to see you try.”
    Thanked by 1Abbysmum
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 136
    It is healthy for kids' musicianship to sing a variety of outer and inner parts, and using the verbiage of "you are singing the alto part on this song" rather than "you are an alto" may help them get over their resistance to singing a different part.


    This. I assigned parts on the most part. They all took turns singing different parts. If we had solos and lots of interest/capable, we sometimes drew straws.