• DOAdvocate
    Posts: 16
    I think this has probably been discussed ad infinitum on this forum, so if anyone has threads that answer this please point me in the right direction.

    Are there any books in print for accompanying the traditional psalm tones from the organ? If not, what is the best pdf resource in your opinion? I find having to deal with technology whilst playing or praying a pest so I would send a pdf off to print.

    Would I be right in guessing there is no resource out there for antiphons etc for the office? (I have accompaniment for Mass propers and some ordinaries). In which case, what do you recommend for learning how to accompany the office?

    Don’t get me wrong I love singing unaccompanied, but I just think a good way for me to learn how to accompany chant properly would be to accompany myself for one or two hours of the office.

    I’m totally new to the organ but am a (hopefully) decent pianist, so this is a lot of learning for me.
  • AriasitaAriasita
    Posts: 38
    This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I suggest playing around with the accompaniment and develop a skill for improvising accompaniments. So long as it supports the singing, I would find that completely appropriate. Practice improvising the same chant a few keys up and a few keys down.

    I shall await patiently now for disagreeing opinions.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 560
    I agree that they are best improvised, but I understand not all can do that. There is no one "correct" choice for pre-composed accompaniments of the Latin psalm tones (I presume these are what you speak of as most modern psalm tones—i.e. Meinrad, Conception Abbey, etc...—have accompaniments readily available) as far as I know, though possible accompaniments can be found in countless hymnals and I'm sure in many PDFs on CCW and possibly here as well.

    For the Office, I don't have a link handy but I remember that a religious sister posted a full set from her convent online here. There's also the Worship III LOTH edition that covers morning prayer and vespers, I believe. If you're speaking of a prior version of the Office than is currently in use, I'm not familiar with the available resources.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • DOAdvocate
    Posts: 16
    Of course I would like to develop the ability to improvise accompaniment, but yes I’m not at the stage to just start doing it - total beginner organist here! Some familiarity with the idiom would be good as a starting point.
    And yes I mean Latin psalm tones, I chant ‘62’s office. To be honest I don’t really like the Meinrad tones, but I think that’s just personal preference, and in any case they’re not for the office I’m trying to accompany.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,049
    The are resources in the LaLand Library at Corpus Christi Watershed. The editions of Achille Bragers for the Gradual will have some accompaniments in it. You could also take the Proper of the Mass by Carlo Rossini as a starting place for accompanying psalm tones.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    There are accompaniments, if you are doing 1962 or earlier, for the office of Vespers (and Compline) on Sundays and feasts.

    I use Henri Potiron’s accompaniment available from the Lalande library on Corpus Christi Watershed’s site. Now, for the psalms, I do a bit of violence, because our organist needs the verses written in full, so I don’t have any accommodation for a dactyl versus a spondee where the notes change differently. But the ideal is to learn the psalter well enough to follow from your Liber (or the antiphonal, or a copy) and not need to have each syllable attached to a note of organ music. Anyway, I take the Potiron and make full scores in Musescore Studio, of which I have PDFs of every office done so far in the past two to three years, plus the Magnificats in every tone used at Sunday Vespers (simple and solemn; luckily it’s a lot of copy, paste, drag notes up or down).

    I think that it is worth learning to drop the melody of psalmody except when accompanying the congregation (we do cantors-all…) and on the more difficult psalm tones (3a2, 4E) as needed. Otherwise, just do the chords.

    Always, always, always, accompany the incipit when sung solo, just the chords, including the opening Deus in adjutorium or the incipit of the hymn etc. Listen to Fontgombault even if you don’t do everything like them (see the next point).

    Other people prefer the NOH, but not only do we use the Solesmes editions and not the Vatican rhythm, I don’t care for the NOH.

    But on improvising: no matter the rhythmic school, the Fontgombault system of writing in the number of sharps or flats plus the first note (but not specifying a key signature exactly, since you will otherwise have some problems) is helpful, and then there a few different treatises available.

    Some people here like Dom Claire’s accompaniment from Solesmes much later in the 20th century. The PDF is posted somewhere here.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • francis
    Posts: 10,997
    I have a wonderful set of accompaniments from somewhere, but I gotta find them
  • In my organ resources page you will find all the printable PDFs of all year round 62's Vespers (both in individual files and also compiled in larger ones) and Compline plus Mass ordinaries and responses (and some other stuff) that I myself (pianist converted to organist without much capability to improvise but to sightread) made using the resources already mentioned by others here to be able to accompany chant at my parish. File titles are in Spanish (browser translator would do), but chant is, naturally, all in latin.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    Yeah. But you introduced a bad practice: already on the first psalm you switch the dominant to B flat from the A of the Deus in adjutorium… Potiron sometimes switched scales for the commemorations of saints. But if it can be sung as a whole office by the universal church, he stuck to A. You can do B flat if you want. But pick one.

    The only time that I change the dominant. except for the hymn (which needs to be more accommodating), is at Compline since the short responsory and versicle are hard to pitch this way and are one after the other. I just follow from the last note of the short responsory.
    Thanked by 1Verbum_Gloriae
  • @MatthewRoth You must be talking about an old file of mine! Is that one/s you mention in my organ resources page? (For they should be not!)

    When I began accompanying chant at home I used to play on a keyboard with a transposer so I did not mind about the score, but since I moved to the actual church where we have a pipe organ (it is been two years and a half now) I had to transpose all of those B flat scores to A, for I also prefer as you say, singing the whole Office in A. Exception are those mentioned by you: hymns and short responsories plus, in my case, the proper of the time's Magnificat antiphons which I took from Julius Bas' accompaniment books -Potiron only has Sundays and feasts- and were way too many to tranpose each of them.

    Therefore, I thought all the Office files I uploaded to the organ resources page were updated versions with psalmody in A, but maybe I missed some without noticing. Could you be so kind to tell me which one/s you found with B flat psalmody, so I can fix them (whenever you have the time)? Thank you very much!
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    Oh gosh, I needed more coffee and to clean my glasses. I looked at the key signature and mode and confused myself. Disregard. Sorry about that!

    I would consider, by the way, using Potiron as a basis for the rest, transposing one by one. It’s not ideal, but it’s better to keep the Magnificat as the same tonality. (Bas does this thing where he changes the dominant and it drove me crazy.)

    But where there is an error: if the office is of the feria, @VerbumGloriae or on simple feasts (this basically doesn’t apply to strict 1962, since those are reduced to Lauds only without Vespers, although per Cum Sanctissima, you might get some of these with the full office) the ferial tone is used at the beginning. The ancient solemn tone may always be used for the collect, outside of the Triduum, but the festal tone is not used on simplex feasts and on ferial days.
  • The NOH is a pretty good turn-key solution and has examples of accompaniment for the psalm tones, though it doesn't include antiphons for the liturgy of the hours.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • francis
    Posts: 10,997
    The NOH is a pretty good turn-key solution and has examples of accompaniment for the psalm tones
    I totally agree and don’t think there’s really no need for anything else except the NOH if you’re going to accompany chant in its purest form.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    It’s a lot of work if you don’t use the Vatican rhythm.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,658
    Where do you live? Is there a chant accompanying guru somewhere in your region that you can work with on improvising from a chant score? It’s kind of a neat thing being able to trace your chant accompanying lineage, if the skill was passed down to you.
  • I have an accompaniment which was put together from recent studies under the solesmes school. I can take photos if you are interested.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    Yeah, to Matthew’s point:

    Br Bachmann of Clear Creek is a good example.
  • DOAdvocate
    Posts: 16
    @MatthewJ
    There’s no regular accompanied chant Masses within a 2 hour drive, NO or EF, so no experts here unfortunately! I know one guy who does some chant accompanying so I can ask him, but he doesn’t do any improv accompanying and has no experience with the office. I’m going to university this year so I may have access to some teaching around there.
  • DOAdvocate
    Posts: 16
    Thanks for all the resources! I will look into them all.
    @monasteryliturgist
    I would definitely be interested in your accompaniment.
    Thanked by 1monasteryliturgist
  • @DOAdvocate I will send you a PM later today
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 107
    Obviously, there is a broad aesthetic spectrum here. Even in my own schola, some love it and some hate it. I was never too interested in chant accompaniment (although Andrew Mills got me into what we might call the mainstream published Solesmes style about 20 years ago, as he always accompanied the Credo that way at Mass), but for me it all changed in 2020 because of two things: first, I heard Nick Botkins accompany (extempore) a Litany at a Benediction led by Cdl. Burke, and second, I got interested in nineteenth-century neo-modal harmony (especially Niedermeyer) while in grad school for music theory, since it was a topic for discussion among some students and teachers there. They (and I) were mainly interested in this because of its considerable influence of Fauré and Liszt. But I have been struck by the similarities between these two styles. Nick plays very much in the ICKSP/Fontgombault way.

    To my ear, the NOH is just a little too jazzy; I've come to appreciate the very infrequent chord changes (ties in to the hexachord thing too!) of the Fontgombault school. That's what I do in my own practice, mostly picked up from Botkins, talking to Fr. Bachmann, and listening to a ton of Fontgombault (they were one of my family's top Spotify artists in 2024, and I share my account with my kids). i would love to write down some thoughts or teach a class on this at some point.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,997
    To my ear, the NOH is just a little too jazzy;
    ok yeah… I will admit it is that… and I do love jazz!
  • I agree it's wanting in that way, but until Fontgombault publishes something I think it's pretty good and easy to get hold of.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,997
    Modes are modal and jazz is modal. Modes is the thing… being modal is the important thing. Almost all the other accomps are built on major and minor scales. They kind of are the more modern version of chant accomp.

    I would like to see fontgombault in print and be able to analyze it structure.
  • Abbysmum
    Posts: 39
    Modes are modal and jazz is modal. Modes is the thing… being modal is the important thing. Almost all the other accomps are built on major and minor scales. They kind of are the more modern version of chant accomp.


    I was thinking about this, reading this thread initially the other day. Our tendency is to create that strong major/minor V-1 structure because that's what we're used to, when really it shouldn't be. That's why I would hesitate to improvise, but instead find a solid accompaniment built up on modes with the "correct" cadences. I'm only just starting to learn about this, but you can definitely hear the difference between those two ways of harmonizing things.

    Also, jazz is awesome.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    @Charles_Weaver please do.

    I didn’t appreciate chant accompaniment until learning chant under Nick Botkins when he was in STL. It grew on me.
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 107
    Niedermeyer is indeed modal (as is Fontgombault), in that they only use the diatonic notes, same as in the melody itself. One aspect that appeals to me about N. is that the cadences should be harmonized by other cadences from the same mode. So if the melody goes ^2–^1 (E–D) in mode 1, then the bass of the harmony should preferably be ^7–^1 (C-D), since that is an alternate modal melodic ending formula.

    Anyway, in Fontgombault, there is also a lot if ^7-^1, especially in mode 7, which makes perfect sense. In that case, it also corresponds with a lot of other traditional modal music like, say, English ballad tunes/carols.

    Also, instead of V–I, chord selection should ideally be based on the hexachord, where you usually don't harmonize with a note not in the current hexachord. That's an interesting idea with not much written about it in English.

    Someday, I will write about all of this. I have a bunch of the underlying Fontgombault schemes in my head.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • @MatthewRoth Thank you very much for the heads-up! I have learned it wrong then, since the priests for whom I work have never sung the ferial tone, only the festal and solemn ones (they are diocesan priests, they must have learned it wrong too).

    Then, when celebrating a feria, in Vespers, both the Deus in adjutorium and the prayer should be in ferial tone? Or only the Deus in adjutorium? I mean, for instance, in Compline, the Deus in adjutorium is always in the ferial tone, but the prayer is the festal one (la-fa#), is not it? The ferial tone for the prayer would be this one which is almost recto tono?

    Thanks in advance!
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,728
    You may use the ancient solemn tone ad libitum* on any Sunday, feast (including simples) or ferial day outside of the Triduum, when everything is recto tono (dicitur doesn’t legitur, but out loud; it means cantatur, but on one note) and I suppose at any Mass except a Requiem Mass (all recto tono) Festal tone on any day III class and up, as well as any Sunday.

    The festal tone is the first tone in the Liber Usualis. The ancient solemn tone ad libitum is the one that “all” (most) of the trad priests from the trad communities particularly in France use. You’re thinking of one version of the ferial tone, the same as used after the Asperges, at Benediction (for any and all orations including the Deus qui nobis sub Sacramento), at the minor hours (since those are never sung with solemnity, i.e. incense, copes, etc.) Now, if Vespers is sung without incense, even when a deacon is hebdom (a deacon cannot bless incense for the trad rite), and therefore in choir dress without a cope, then it may be used. The ICRSP priests did that when I was a candidate living with them. However it seems clear that you can use the ancient solemn tone ad libitum, because the books provide the tone “Domine exaudi” in the same tone to be used in nuns’ choirs (or, I suppose, where a deacon is filling in).

    The ferial tone of the Deus in adjutorium is used every day at Prime through None and then Compline. Matins and Lauds when split from Matins (always permissible in 1962, permissible outside of choir pre-1962, i.e. in most of our circumstances today) follow the rules as at Vespers, except that the solemn tone that begins Fa-Sol-La with the quilisma is ONLY for Vespers.

    *There’s not a good English name for this tone, but we all know it…