Gregorian Mass Settings
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 314
    I recall a while back that someone had posted a pdf that was a sort of "ordo" on when which Mass is used for which feast. I am wondering if any one knows where that can be found. We are trying to branch out and learn some more masses which have been neglected over the years.
    Thanks so much.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 633
    If you have access to a Liber, each set of ordinaries is headed with the feast for which it is suggested.
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 314
    I have that. Its not exactly what Im looking for. There was a pdf that someone had posted from one of the pre-vatican II popes (cant remember who) that had a sort of ordo like "Ascension Thursday- Missa...", Transfiguration- Missa..." so it was more specific.
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    Not papal but a local usage - https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/12652/specific-uses-of-gregorian-chant-masses-rouen/p1
    Thanked by 2monasteryliturgist Chant_Supremacist
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 314
    Additionally, does any one know of any specifics on when the ambrosian gloria is used. Or it really is just simply libitum

    We typically use it when the priest is "in a hurry" which to me totally degrades one of the most beautiful glorias..
    Thanked by 1WGS
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    Ad Libitum. I don't care for it myself. Arthur's post is interesting because while I could mostly live with the assignments (and I understand why one would skip from IV to VIII…) the Credo assignments are baffling, as I is mostly relegated to green Sundays, and VI is used over V (I don't like it!); no Kyrie in mode VI, it doesn't specify the Asperges tones; and there are at least a few options for the Kyrie other than one not in the book for Corpus Christi, Forty Hours (and other votive Masses), and Sacred Heart…and I'm always split between XII and XIII for the time after Pentecost if one must deviate.
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 43
    Local but highly prescriptive is an interesting phenomenon that's as tough to achieve today as it was normal in times past. I assume that in many or most trad parishes now when the priest and/or director change, the mass setting selection also changes somewhat. I think the disappearance of the "local but highly prescriptive" category could be a premise for a fascinating social commentary.
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 314
    My experience is that most just use the basics
    Missa de Angelis- for almost anything (i believe one of the most overused masses)
    Orbis Factor- After Pentecost
    Lux et Origo- PT
    Cum Iubilo- BVM/ Nativity

    etc.

    I feel we dont branch out enough, but there is little direction on how to branch out in a way that makes sense with the liturgical year.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    Our list:

    Mass I, Credo I: Paschal Tide

    Mass IV, Credo I: major feasts with chant ordinaries and Holy Thursday.

    Mass VIII, Credo III: Christmas through Epiphany (I’d prefer IX like the French do); rarely on other occasions when IV is ruled out, plus for now Trinity through the Sunday after the Sacred Heart inclusive.

    Mass IX, Credo I: BVM.

    Mass XI, Credo I: Sundays per annum. We run into a problem because…

    Mass XVII, Credo IV, Asperges in mode IV: Advent (mode VI Kyrie); Septuagesima through Palm Sunday (with the mode I Kyrie from the main section) which is quite the stretch.

    Mass XVIII: days where it’s required (Rogation Monday) and the Requiem version as needed.

    I would be amenable to the mode VII Asperges and to using Credo V in PT and on the most important feasts. Mass II as in the Rouen usage. Votives and occasional minor feasts of the BVM: X (it’s so easy to learn and relearn as needed if you sing so much chant like we happily do).

    XV for minor feasts (simples/commemorations) and votive Masses including First Thursday/Friday.

    I’d be open to XII and XIII for green Sundays after Pentecost, through (mid-) September and then the end of the year.

    It’s a bit much but it’s approaching the ideal, and our people could do it.
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    Here are the Vatican suggestions, https://media.churchmusicassociation.org/pdf/vaticannorms.pdf

    We use,
    Major Feasts, Mass II Credo I
    Eastertide, Mass I Credo I (Kyrie ad lib I at the Vigil)
    After Epiphany / Pentecost, Mass IX Credo IV
    Advent, Mass XVII (Kyrie mode VI) Credo II
    Septuagesima, Mass XI (Kyrie ad lib X) Credo IV
    Lent, Mass XVII (Kyrie mode I) Credo II
    BVM, Mass IX Credo I
    Apostles, Mass IV Credo I
    Octaves, Mass XIV
    etc.


    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    The Vatican list would be fine but I do prefer Credo I to IV and III — it’s quite strange being the outlier here!
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    Credo III is banned, and Mass VIII is for Feasts of the Angels that are not d1.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    At your parish, do you only use the usual Asperges?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,789
    We also use Asperges ad lib II. (We have yet to learn the Isaac setting) The children's choir is learning a polyphonic 2 part setting at the moment.

    We also sing a polyphonic Mass with Credo around once a month,
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 43
    @MatthewRoth I love Credo I. Credo IV I just find beautifully and intensely dramatic, so much so that I'm very surprised to see some using it for Sundays after Pentecost. You're not the only one surprised by some of these responses!
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 314
    Novus Ordo Folks, has anyone noticed that in the Easter Vigil- the English Missal has the Gloria of Fons Bonitatis rather than Lux et Origo? Is this a thing?

    I agree Credo I, is quite beautiful.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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