Decree Prohibiting Certain Hymns and Listing Suggested Mass Settings
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 440
    it's refreshing to see something, anything, get banned. It's just so explicit, straightforward, and efficient.

    Until it's something that you use which gets banned!
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 32
    It's true things are topsy turvy and I should be careful what I wish for, but I don't want to play an equivalency game. The difference remains that the music I use mostly has explicit pride of place, and plenty of other music used at mass deserves to be banned and it would be refreshing to see bishops sometimes taking that action.
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,307
    ^bingo. Abusus non tollit usum.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    Until it's something that you use which gets banned!
    A number of years ago Gregorian chant was banned in our entire diocese.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 150
    2 bishops prior in Jefferson City outright banned the use of Latin the diocese, including Choral works.

    Edit: that has since been lifted (or read not enforced) for a while.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,307
    Obviously ultra vires and to be ignored. At what point are priests and musicians going to act like winners instead of losers? Much like in secular politics, nothing is to be gained by playing by the rules if the opposition refuses to do so.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw M. Jackson Osborn Chant_Supremacist
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,413
    ...entire diocese,..
    The Catholic Church is ruled by 'authority' and those on the pecking order expect their allotment of 'authority' to be obeyed - or else. Yet, I've never understood how those with higher rank expect their 'authority' to be obeyed even when their restrictions and commandments are in direct contradiction to real, genuine authority such as the express commands of oecumenical councils and successive popes, which are the highest authorities of the Church! - namely that the people should know the Latin of the mass, and that the Church's musical patrimony be preserved, and that choirs should be trained assiduously to the realisation of these ends. The Council's call for these things amounts to genuine authority to accomplish them. There exists no 'authority' to do the very opposite and forbid them. There is no authority to forbid chant and Latin, only authority to teach them, not to forbid them. What am I missing? Authority and power are two very different things. It is saddening to observe that they believe their power gives them absolute 'authority' to do anything they wish - even to impose their own ignorance upon everyone below them in rank in direct contradiction of Council and Pope. This is inauthentic 'authority'.
    Thanked by 5a_f_hawkins trentonjconn CHGiffen CharlesW LauraKaz
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Has anyone ever tried sending a dubia to Rome asking whether such a ban is lawful? (I have never had cause, nor any locus standi)
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,307
    It’s so self-evidently unlawful.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    So tell the Archbishop of Atlanta that celebrating ad orientem is not unlawful, even though Rome has made 3 statements over the years saying that it is acceptable. Priests must get permission to do so. Also, to say the Novus Ordo in Latin is illegal. One can sing in Latin but one cannot pray in Latin.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw trentonjconn LauraKaz
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    Also, to say the Novus Ordo in Latin is illegal. One can sing in Latin but one cannot pray in Latin.
    this is a problem
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    JUST IN

    Celebration of the traditional Latin Mass at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Tyler, Texas, the diocese formerly headed by Bishop Joseph Strickland, is ending effective November 30.

    According to a letter written by the current head of Tyler, Texas, Joseph Vásquez, celebration of the traditional Latin Mass at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception will cease on November 30 following direction from the Vatican.

    The answer that came back from the Dicastery for Divine Worship was cruel indeed: cancel all five Latin Masses in the diocese, except for the Latin Mass at the FSSP Parish in Tyler, St. Joseph the Worker. Diocesan Latin Masses in Tyler, Malakoff, Texarkana, Gilmer, and Nacogdoches are to end as of November 30, 2024. No other priests in the diocese will have faculties for the Latin Mass except those at St. Joseph the Worker. Everywhere else, the Latin Mass is "discontinued."
    [Rorate Caeli]

    So it seems most use of GC will be cancelled there. The FSSP is being turning into a ghetto for the TLMers.
    Thanked by 1mattebery
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    The FSSP is being turning into a ghetto for the TLMers.
    You may be on to something here. I have wondered if the unspoken plan is to get the Trads isolated and out of the regular church. Stranger things have happened.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Also, to say the Novus Ordo in Latin is illegal.

    I take it that US Roman Missals for use on the altar are still required to include Latin as well as English, if so simply fire off a dubium to DDWDS asking whether a diocese has the authority to ban a celebrant from using any text in the Altar Missal.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 536
    I take it that US Roman Missals for use on the altar are still required to include Latin as well as English


    They do not include this.
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 150
    If only they did.....
    Thanked by 3ServiamScores tomjaw francis
  • DL
    Posts: 80
    The missals in England no longer include the Latin ordinary. The only Latin in them is the Pater noster.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    The 2011 Roman Missal 3rd edition for the USA only uses Latin for titles of things like the Gloria, the Magnificat, sequence titles, et cet.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,883
    The missals in England no longer include the Latin ordinary. The only Latin in them is the Pater noster.
    To quote a new friend of mine who is new to the world of catholic church music:
    There’s a fascinating gulf between the teaching of the documents and actual practice.

    Boy, howdy; isn't there!
    Thanked by 4trentonjconn tomjaw Earl_Grey LauraKaz
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    You may be on to something here. I have wondered if the unspoken plan is to get the Trads isolated and out of the regular church. Stranger things have happened.


    I don’t think it’s really unspoken. If you’ve read TC, the follow up documents from +Roche, and those communications between bishops and +Roche that have been made public, it’s very clear their intention is the end of all diocesan TLMs. They’re saying what they’re doing aloud.
    Thanked by 3irishtenor tomjaw francis
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,307
    ^all TLMs, it’s just that the FSSP got a reprieve.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    The only Latin in them is the Pater noster.
    That's because that is the language Jesus spoke whenever he was giving a public discourse.

    It is also ironic that the Pater Noster was proceeded by these words straight from His Mouth:

    Thus therefore shall you pray:
    And then all of England breaks out in Latin?!?!
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 440
    That's because that is the language Jesus spoke whenever he was giving a public discourse.


    Ahh, just to be clear, exactly what language are you saying that Jesus spoke?
    Thanked by 2GerardH WGS
  • francis
    Posts: 10,816
    Latin!

    (Jeez guys… laugh a little!)
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins ServiamScores
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