When to start music at communion
  • Pax
    Posts: 7
    I have a question I've been mulling for quite some time and I figured this would be a good place to get some insight. Typically in our diocese in the Novus Ordo, musicians wait until after the priest has received from the chalice before beginning the communion chant. However, in studying the GIRM it indicates that the communion chant should begin "while the Priest is receiving the Sacrament." My pastor tends to take a long time in between reception of the host and the chalice and I've been tempted to begin the music after he takes the host to "accompany" his action of receiving the sacrament. I also know that the bells typically ring in our diocese as the priest takes the chalice and that has also been seen as the "sign" for musicians to start singing. But I believe that the bells ringing at that point are just meant to be the indication that the congregation should come forward for communion and thus have no correlation to the action of music there. They could still be rung as the communion song/chant is ongoing. This type of overlapping activity where there is an action on the altar accompanied by music and the bells ring in their own independent timing in the midst of that would certainly feel more Tridentine as the Novus Ordo seems to prefer one action after another without overlap, but the rubrics do seem to indicate that it could be done this way.

    So my question - In the Novus Ordo, is it appropriate to start the communion song once the priest has received the host but before he has received from the chalice? Or even before he receives the host, maybe immediately after the "domine non sum dignus"? Is there any other place or tradition which indicates exactly when the music should begin or is the vague "while the priest is receiving the sacrament" all that we have to go on?

    Thanks for any insights!
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • In my situations, it’s been as soon as he turns his mic off to receive the host.

    I’ve never heard of a bell after the chalice… is this something in the girm I’ve missed or a local (or historical) practice?
    Thanked by 1cesarfranck
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,913
    I ring the bell when our priests receive from the chalice; (the bishop too, for that matter) this was taught to me by a traditional priest, and it is largely a European practice, but it is an ancient tradition. He was trained in Rome, and I trust his expertise in this matter. The Bell is to signify the moment that the sacrifice is actually complete. (Part of sacrifice is the consumption of the offering.) our bishop, who lived in Rome for many years, has also never said anything. And he would certainly correct me if he was not a fan, or if it was somehow in contravention of a rubric. He is an extremely intelligent man and is very precise when it comes to liturgical matters.

    My straightforward reading of the GIRM is that you should start chanting immediately, however, in practice, I find it much more comfortable to allow 30 seconds of silence, and then begin chanting the moment the priest then begins to prepare for distribution for holy communion. There’s nothing wrong with 30 seconds of silence. In fact, waiting a few seconds or not starting until after the priest has finally completed the sacrifice also functions as a cue for everyone else that it’s time for the motion to begin. It also reinforces the solemnity of the moment that the priest receives because we’re not trying to cover it up.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,913
    I think it’s also fair to make the observation that there are many deficiencies in the rubrics of the new missal. Certain things are unclear, certain other things do not align with historical praxis. (As I understand it anyway.) certain other rubrics are almost universally ignored … so I wouldn’t lose sleep over these 20 seconds of ambiguity.
  • It was formerly (another parish, another diocese) my practice to begin while the celebrant is receiving. A former pastor emphasized to me that this was good because it connected the communion of the priest and the communion of the faithful as a unified event. My current pastor has asked me to wait until he has received from the chalice, so that’s what I do now. This makes sense in my parish since we do both the old and the new rites and this makes the former more like the latter in terms of when the communion antiphon is sung, namely at the beginning of the distribution of Holy Communion.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 481
    I always start immediately after the Domine, non sum dignus. I have always thought that waiting until after the celebrant drinks from the chalice was an incursion from the NO missa lecta, where the priest may read the Communion Antiphon from the missal. I also thought the bell was simply a signal to the congregation to recite it on their own; the complete sacrifice angle is not one I'd considered, so thanks for bringing to to my attention, Serviam.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    Tbh it’s a post hoc justification which is fine, but…the bell is totally superfluous in any form of the rite. Either you commune or you don’t. Aren’t there enough signals to come forward if you are that don’t intrude on the chant and, frankly, the solemnity of the moment?
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,000
    I never heard of a bell when the priest receives from the chalice. I went to masses all over Europe (the Netherlands, where I live, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Germany, Poland, Italy) and never encountered this practice.

    The communion chant is begun, while the priest is receiving the Sacrament (GIRM 86). It accompanies the reception communion, which starts when the priest receives.

    In practice, I notice that priests tend to say the words ‘May the Body of Christ keep me safe for eternal life’ and ‘May the Blood of Christ keep me safe for eternal life’ out loud, changing ‘me’ with ‘us’, with people answering ‘Amen’ each time. Musicians wait until the people have responded and then, sometimes after receive communion themselves first, start the communion chant.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    In the Novus Ordo, the instructions are explicitly to begin as the priest receives Communion, so that is what is appropriate. It's not ambiguous. There is no rationale in favor of delay; it's not as if the priest is going to be leading the singing.

    GIRM 86. *While the Priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion Chant is begun,* its purpose being to express the spiritual union of the communicants by means of the unity of their voices, to show gladness of heart, and to bring out more clearly the “communitarian” character of the procession to receive the Eucharist. The singing is prolonged for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful. However, if there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion Chant should be ended in a timely manner.

    (emphasis added)
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,913
    In practice, I notice that priests tend to say the words ‘May the Body of Christ keep me safe for eternal life’ and ‘May the Blood of Christ keep me safe for eternal life’ out loud, changing ‘me’ with ‘us’, with people answering ‘Amen’ each time.
    Speaking of novelties…

    In any case, as I said, my former pastor was trained in Rome, and our bishop lived there for 7 years, I believe. Perhaps it’s local to there? (Or maybe it’s a more ancient practice that is largely forgotten?)
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • davido
    Posts: 958
    GIRM 86 is very pastoral in its nature with its very modern liturgical sensibilities (gladness, community). Since happily in the last 50 years we have discovered that Modern Man is the same creature as Pre-Vatican II Man and still craves silent adoration and abhors tedious musical repetition, GIRM 86’s directions to avoid silence and sing a single communion chant ad nauseam are happily ignored in my experience.
    Thanked by 1Charles_Weaver
  • davido
    Posts: 958
    Also, GIRM 86 points out that communion for the singers should be thought of. If the singers are to receive communion, it is often more expedient for them to receive first, not wait til the end of communion when they may no longer have a chance to receive. So COMMON SENSE should be used when interpreting any rubric.
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    This is one of the problems with making it a rubric one way or the other: too early, deprive schola of communion; I believe in allowing people to commune as they wish (within reason; I don’t like it at weddings and at Requiem Masses or on certain large occasions). Too late, no psalms to extend the proper. All Saints and Beati Mundo Corde are a good example of a proper that is too long to repeat if you sing the proper at the ablutions (pre-1957).

    On Rogation Monday and a few other days the schola goes first and then immediately sings the proper. It’s a bit awkward. But we need to do it.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    I have sometimes thought that with all the people leaving after they receive, it might be a good time to start the postlude.
    Thanked by 1Steve Q
  • When we begin the music varies a bit.

    When a choir is singing in the loft, we at least get the instrumental music started promptly, and then bring in the singers once the pianist or organist has decided they have given enough of an introduction (one tends to improvise very long introductions, which are quite nice, so I don’t object). Generally the choir takes a brief moment to receive communion, extraordinary ministers come up to the loft and it takes about the length of hymn for them to get there. Then a second hymn or song tends to be about the amount of music needed to cover communion and at least part of the purification of the vessels.

    When we have a small ensemble off by the side altar niche (that no longer has an altar, thank you 1970s) they will approach the altar with extraordinary ministers to receive communion and then begin the music.

    Personally I do like an antiphonal style communion chant or song, something that has a part that can easily be sung in procession, and than can be varied in length as needed, and then ended promptly when the procession ends. Following that up with either silence or light organ music, and letting people kneel or sit pray privately for a while…, and then singing a Eucharistic hymn of thanksgiving really works rather nicely where it is done thing (and hymn singing means standing back up again), once the congregation gets used to it. Then use an organ recessional after the dismissal instead of a “sending” hymn (or silence in Lent, etc.).

    There is an idea in many places that the communion song should not begin until the procession of the congregation, and I can’t figure out quite where that idea comes from. Often some sort of instrumental filler may be used from the priest’s communion up until then, especially where a good bit of time to organize the extraordinary ministers is needed.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    The rubric is clear enough. And the purpose 'to express spiritual union' includes the priest (and any ordinary or extra ministers) as meum ac vestrum sacrificium is completed by our consumation. The idea that the spatial mechanics of 'proceeding' to the altar should confuse that is objectionable.
    I have seen this attributed to St Augustine but have not verified it -
    Then, after the consecration of the Holy Sacrifice of God, because He wished us also to be His sacrifice, a fact which was made clear when the Holy Sacrifice was first instituted, and because that Sacrifice is a sign of what we are, behold, when the Sacrifice is finished, we say the Lord's Prayer which you have received and recited. After this, the 'Peace be with you' is said, and the Christians embrace one another with the holy kiss.
  • "He wished us also to be his sacrifice." Yes, St. Augustine, Serm. 227. in die Paschæ
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • If we followed that rubric the choir members would have difficulty receiving communion.

    We go down first and receive immediately after the altar servers. This is the best way to control timing I find, and emphasizes that the choir is also serving. Aspirationally I would someday like the schola to be vested and in the sanctuary, so I'm partial to this little bit of symbolism.

    Our organist has often received earlier in the day, so during this time he will play something. Thinking about it, maybe he could begin as the priest receives and create continuity that way?

    Once back we take a moment with Our Lord, then begin the chant, sometimes with verses, sometimes not. When the priest returns to the altar, we begin a hymn or motet, something really nice to serve as a crowning musical jewel for the mass.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    "If we followed that rubric the choir members would have difficulty receiving communion."

    Not if the choir receives after the rest of the congregation, and the music chosen does not require support of the full choir to sustain congregational singing. It's not difficult.
    Thanked by 2MarkB PaxMelodious
  • I should be more clear. It's not the difficulty of receiving communion per se, but of combining that rubric with other constraints and objectives.

    I don't follow you re: music chosen. I'm EF. It's the proper antiphon with psalmody. Nobody in the congregation sings it afaik, let alone can sustain it without the schola.

    A few other things. First, it would be difficult to time when to start wrapping up the chant to head down. Certainly more difficult than heading down and receiving first.

    Second, it would result in losing a full minute or two for that final motet, as the priest would be well into purifications before we even got back to the loft.

    Third, the choir members would hurry up flights of stairs and be out of breath and disorganized before beginning the motet. Not to mention zero time for an act of thanksgiving.

    Many good and sufficient reasons to eschew that particular rubric. I have sung at almost 10 extraordinary form parishes and none of them carefully followed that rubric.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    Oh, the rubric is an OF Missal rubric (GIRM 86), so I assumed an OF context. My apologies.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,913
    I think this whole discussion is making a mountain out of a mole hill, to be perfectly frank.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW tomjaw
  • Surely provision can be made for the choir members receive communion after Mass is over?

    If you're going to follow a "do the red and say the black" approach, surely you have to follow it fully, not just pick the bits that suit your circumstances?
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    Liam - the original question was about the NO. The EF rule at St John Cantius is
    Once the Celebrant begins to distribute Holy Communion the choir chants the Communion proper to the day
    see https://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/highmass.pdf , which I have also in Latin somewhere.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    PaxM

    The rubric for the OF is that the Communion should be available to members of the choir during the Communion rite of the Mass. Whether members of the choir prefer to receive then or after Mass is completed is their own personal choice, but not the choice of the music director to make for them.
  • Very simply, in an Extraordinary Form Mass, if it's non-communicating, than all of the problems disappear.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,478
    Rob - very true, and a long enduring practice. But not the preference of the Council of Trent :
    SESSIO XXII 17 sept 1562 [Doctrina de sacrificio Missae] [Caput VI]
    Optaret quidem sacrosancta Synodus ut in singulis missis fideles adstantes ...
    On the Mass wherein the Priest alone communicates
    The sacred and holy synod would wish indeed that, at each mass, the faithful who are present should communicate, not only in spiritual desire, but also by the sacramental participation of the Eucharist, ... : but nevertheless, ...
    Though it took another 390 years and relaxation of the Eucharistic fast by Pius XII to begin change.
    Thanked by 2Liam CHGiffen
  • GerardH
    Posts: 481
    As an addendum on the topic of the bell, I was just reading this article from EWTN which states:
    Earlier forms of the Roman rite had a very brief invitation to the faithful to approach Communion after the priest had received. However, this formula disappeared although a bell was rung as a sign of invitation.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores