The end of Finale®
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Larger text is always a good thing, especially for us People with old eyes.

    I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed some older octavos use italics for lyrics, which is much better for conserving horizontal space as it pair kerns at a much higher rate allowing you to put more characters on a single line. This also helps with sight reading as the notes are closer together, often do this with my octavos. It’s an older method that not a lot of European publishers utilized but works very well and it doesn’t have that clunky look of Roman type.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    Fair, Serviam, and I'm going to post to their forum. I'm told that they're responsive even if they don't have an issue right away.

  • For church music (chant, in particular) it is an EXCELLENT choice.


    What makes it excellent for chant?
  • The fact that it doesn’t think in terms of measures and meter. Just notes and durations—bar lines and meter are optional.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • I think I know the answer to this but does it have options for neumes and four line staves?

    I find that music has some medium-message connection with its notation and that I can't sing chant to my satisfaction from modern notes. It's a mental hang-up but frankly I don't care to change it.

    A program with maybe a neume plug-in that let you notate organum on the same four line staff would be amazing.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,000
    I think I know the answer to this but does it have options for neumes and four line staves?
    A program with maybe a neume plug-in that let you notate organum on the same four line staff would be amazing.


    For Gregorian chant you should definitively use Gregorio.

    For church music (chant, in particular) it is an EXCELLENT choice.


    It can be done in Musescore Studio as well, with some workarounds. The feature is being planned though for a future release.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    Yeah. MS Studio has the familiar neumes on the five-line staff but it’s outrageously bad, and people who only know Lilypond have tried to get me to use that over Gregorio, but the Lilypond documentation for chant shows why this is bad, and in fact Fr. Samuel is “one of us” such that he came up with a package to get Lilypond output in a LaTeX document.

    Reminder in any case that later this fall, Charles Weaver is doing an introduction to Gregorio online for CMAA members iirc. Worth it!
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • Does it have options for neumes...?

    Not natively. But Dan Kreider has just announced an ingenious workaround/plugin he's developing to do that:
    https://forums.steinberg.net/t/muschant-0-1/935596

    To connect to the original subject: Finale never did develop a convincing way to do chant notation. You either had to use the complex subprogram Medieval, or (in 27) substitute SMuFL noteheads.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    It’s… gonna need a lot of work and really more knowledge of rhythm and how that’s reflected. I have something in the works (pray that it gets published!) where I talk about the primacy of rhythm in the old/classic Solesmes schools (so for doms Pothier and Mocquereau). And this is another example. You have to start somewhere, but Élie Roux spent months on end consecrated almost entirely to what became Gregorio…
  • I've pointed Dan to gregorio. The problem is it doesn't integrate with Dorico. He's developing a FONT that can be used similar to GABC in any document, and in particular, notation programs. No, it is not perfect, nor will it be... but it will be an amazing leap forward for the majority of use cases. It's not going to be for people who want to obsess over micro spaces. It's for people who want to have square notes and regular notation side-by-side like the old english hymnal.
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Quick
  • @chant_supremacist: the reason Dorico is particularly good for church music is that it has true support for open meter. That means that doing chant transcriptions is supremely easy and flexible. Engraving accompaniments similar to the NOH is a walk in the park. You literally just enter music, plop in barlines as you go alone, select all, "hide stems" and bob's your uncle. Engraving hymns is very easy and you can get beautiful results with al the engraving option contols. The other thing that makes Dorico fundamentally different from all the other programs is "flows". You can have multiple pieces (or even just small snippets) of music within a single file, that all have the same engraving properties. Practically speaking, this means you can have a complete ordo for a liturgy within one file. I once did a tri-lingual Easter Vigil and had every response, hymn, chant, and bit of the ordinary, all as independent movements within the same file. Then I was able to engrave it all to match, and export each piece for placement within a worship aid. I had something on the order of 30 pieces of music, all within the same file—not 30 separate files. It was amazing.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,367
    I think the problem is that it’s not obsessing over microspaces; you say that like it’s a bad thing. It’s just what it is.

    Lots of us want this too; it’s just that it requires a complicated workflow to do it well, and while I don’t wish to make the perfect the enemy of the good, I don’t want it to be horrendously bad either. Gregorio > Lilypond and it’s not even close. I don’t want this new thing to look like the latter even if I’m probably never going to adopt it, as people new to chant or new to notating chant cannot often tell the difference apparently. Which is bad!
  • @smvanroode et al...
    I use Capella for less than half of what Dorico charges. You can write without a time signature (yes, there's a button for "no time signature"), which is great for chant and chant styles, thus you can put your bar lines anywhere you want and with a certain drawing tool you can even make quarter bars and half bars. There's also a provision for chant notes (the chant clef's not so hot, however). I've been using it for years and I love it. The latest version is Capella 9 which runs currently $248.
    https://www.capella-software.com/us/
    BMP
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Finale to Dorico cross grades currently only cost $150
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • For Serviam and the other Dorico users, how easy is it to do psalm tones? In Finale, I do it using the non breaking space (Alt + Space) and I can get multiple words all under one note. Does Dorico have a similarly easy way to do this?
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • Exactly the same in Dorico.
  • Thanks for the help Marc. Sorry, its, Ctrl + Space, not Alt + Space as I said above.
  • Might be a platform difference—I use the same command in finale and dorico to achieve this—alt -space.
  • I have an older version of Finale I got about 6 years ago, so it probably is.