Latin Mass Parts
  • jberardi
    Posts: 3
    Hello all,
    I am a music director at a pretty traditional Church. The congregation has grown to appreciate Sacred Music. During Advent and Lent, we use the Chant Mass parts which I think is nice. It has been brought to my attention that using the Latin Mass parts during penitential seasons, conveys that Latin is associated with sadness and penitence. I am looking for a Mass Setting that is relatively easy for a choir and congregation to pick up. My dream would be to sing the Gloria in Latin during Ordinary time.

    I would appreciate any input and/or suggestions on the matter>

    Thank you so much!
  • lmassery
    Posts: 422
    This is a useful website for you to peruse https://www.ccwatershed.org/kyriale/
    Thanked by 2Bri mmeladirectress
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Mass XI is great, and it’s the typical chant Mass for “Ordinary Time.” I particularly like the Gloria.

    It sounds perhaps “minor” or sad, which is true, but chant doesn’t associate that with purely sad things, so some teaching is in order. :)
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • StPatricksSongs
    Posts: 4
    I'd recommend you try De Angelis next because it's not gloomy at all, and perhaps the easiest of all the Kyriale to learn.

    Eventually though, this is a good schedule:

    * During Advent and Lent: Missa XVII (Salve) + Credo I
    * From Christmas to Epiphany: Missa VIII (De Angelis) + Credo III
    * From Easter to Pentecost: Missa I (Lux Et Origo) + Credo III
    * Ordinary Time: Missa XI (Orbis Factor) + Credo IV
    * For Marian solemnities, feasts: Missa IX (Cum Jubilo) + Credo I
    * Solemnities: Missa II (Kyrie Fons Bonitatis) + Credo VI
    Thanked by 2LauraKaz Bri
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    We do I and IV reversed (that’s my experience at most TLMs for what it’s worth)

    But I don’t think that de Angelis is necessarily easier… and I wonder about getting people hooked on it only then to transition to something far outside of their comfort zone tonally (well, modally) and otherwise.
    Thanked by 3hilluminar tomjaw Bri
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 121
    I second MatthewRoth. De Angelis is not the best, nor the easiest. I recommend Mass X for a rather short, easy, lighthearted Mass that sounds delightful. The Kyrie is absolutely beautiful.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw Bri LauraKaz
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    I like Mass VIII (De Angelis). XI (Orbis Factor) is also terrific.

    If you can get your people to do the Jubilate Deo chants + De Angelis + Orbis Factor, you'd be way, way ahead of almost any parish.

    Also, other than the Jubilate Deo chants, I'd guess that if people know other chant ordinaries, the most popular ones would be De Angelis and Orbis Factor. You'd be teaching them things that they would be able to hold in common with many others.
    Thanked by 2Bri LauraKaz
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    Here's the Missa simplex from the Kyriale parvum. The parts are taken from the Kyriale Romanum and Kyriale simplex. They are in their simplicity quite beautiful and can be picked up quite easily by an inexperienced congregation.
    Missa simplex.pdf
    156K
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    The Gloria from Mass XI (Orbis factor) sounds strange to modern ears, as it should because God is strange to modern minds. If your congregation can appreciate Let all mortal flesh keep silence then you can be persuade it to Gloria XI.
    Thanked by 2Bri Paul F. Ford
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 621
    While Mass VIII is most definitely overused and overvalued, I do agree that it's a good place to start after the Jubilate Deo chants. Some folks will not like transitioning into a setting that is BOTH melismatic AND "sad/minor/dirge-y" whatever other terms people like to unfairly throw at chant. De Angelis is a gateway drug to more melismatic settings while still being sweet and bright. In my experience, it is a Mass setting which has opened people's eyes and hearts to more legitimate settings from the kyriale.
    Thanked by 3Bri irishtenor LauraKaz
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    FWIW, for communities that have been allowed to become more familiar with the English-language Missal chants, Gloria XV was the basis for the English-language chanted Gloria.
    Thanked by 3irishtenor CHGiffen Bri
  • DL
    Posts: 80
    Don’t forget alternatim: especially helpful with a Gloria and a competent schola or even cantor. And after a while you can reverse the schola/tutti parts, if you want to get to the stage of everyone singing everything.
    You could also construct something from the ad lib. chants: why not the Ambrosian Gloria, which sounds a little like a bee trying to leave through a plate glass window?

    Also, if no one knew Mass VIII, then one might indeed not wish to teach it from scratch (there are better setting of fake chant in a major key) - but if your congregation is not exclusively made up of people who have only ever worshipped there, then it is the kind of thing people might know. And at least it helps get the words under control for the grand seasonal game of One Song to the Tune of Another.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,100
    while Kyriale XI is used most often throughout the year, it must be said that those who have been away from the Church for much, or most, of their lives, and hear Kyriale VIII, are likely to remember it - also Credo III - and it has been known to draw people back.
    At least, that's my experience over 25 years.
    So, besides feasts, we are sure to use these at every Christmas midnight Mass. :-)
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Oh yeah. Alternatim is the only way to go for the Kyrie, Gloria, and Credo — everything else leads to weak or inconsistent singing (particularly if you switch to Mass IX’s Gloria only occasionally for Marian feasts or maybe at Christmas — the range is tricky!) or to the organist being too aggressive with the registration, particularly with Mass VIII.

    We use VIII and III for now at midnight, but the people who were nostalgic for those either come only occasionally or are open to anything so we largely do Mass IV and Credo I for feasts. I’d do Credo V if it were up to me on first-class feasts and in Paschal Time to use I less often.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,885
    Oh yeah. Alternatim is the only way to go for the Kyrie, Gloria, and Credo — everything else leads to weak or inconsistent singing

    Kyrie obviously makes sense, as it's structure calls for this. As for the Credo, I introduced Credo III (in english) at my last parish and we faithfully sang it at every 11:00 mass and after about a year, the congregation really knew it well. We did not use any alternatim. I think that consistency was really the key.
    Thanked by 4trentonjconn PaxMelodious LauraKaz CHGiffen
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,190
    With all due respect to Mr. Roth, but I have been doing Gregorian ordinaries with no alternatim for years. Its all in the practice. You want them to learn the whole thing, then do it. Be patient. It will take while.
    Thanked by 5Roborgelmeister trentonjconn LauraKaz ServiamScores CHGiffen
  • jberardi
    Posts: 3
    Thank you everyone! This has all been very helpful!
    God bless!
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