Musician/cantor duet
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 282
    I wanted to ask the forum to see if this is something more common than I thought.

    If you are at the organ, do you have a mic and sing with the cantor? Some of the parishes I’ve visited have this musician/cantor duet, and I find it off-putting as if the two are trying to compete. We are called to make a joyful noise to the Lord, indeed, but are more mic’d individuals needed when you already have a mic’d cantor?
  • TCJ
    Posts: 982
    By duet do you mean trading verses, or just singing everything together?

    I will sing with the cantor to:

    1.) Assist the cantor if he needs a little support

    2.) Harmonize

    Aside from that, the cantor gets to sing and I get to play.

    Thanked by 4ServiamScores Carol CHGiffen irishtenor
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    A lot of times the organist and I split the responsorrial psalm and Gospel Alleluia and verse be tween us. That is, I'll do the responsorrial psalm, he'll do the Gospel and verse. Sometimes we switch. Today, I had to do both because we had a substitute organist. I really don't want to do it and neither does he so we split the difference. We only have one mass on Sunday so it's not so bad.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    I NEVER sing while playing the organ.

    Unfortunately modern churches are built with a dead/ dry acoustic in mind. This is contrary to the proper aesthetic of sacred music. There should never be sound deadening materials used in church architecture. Many of the churches are built to be a glorified living room. This is why it promotes the whole idea of contemporary music, I did acoustic and amplified instruments and voices.
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 546
    No. If there is a miked cantor, they are there to do their job and supply what is “proper”ly theirs – the psalm, and any antiphons; and/or to help lead the singing of the congregation. Why would I get on the microphone and compete or interfere with that?

    If I am in a place where I can hear the organ and judge the balance decently well, and if I can do so without competing with the cantor, I will sometimes sing the hymns and other congregational music without a mic, just to add one more male voice and help the congregation get past the “I don’t hear anyone else singing, so I’ll be quiet” stage.
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 282
    TCJ, I mean singing everything together. I’ve been at places where organist and cantor will “trade off,” which works well, but my OP primarily deals with organist/cantor both singing (and both mic’d) at the same time.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,083
    Was the title of this thread deliberate, or Freudian? Are we using cantors who aren’t musicians?
    Thanked by 2Bri LauraKaz
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,791
    Indeed, Jeffrey. In Elizabethan times the usual terminology was "Gentlemen and players".
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    I am a cantor. Occasionally the organist will sing if I ask him to on a hymn that is new to me. He does sing harmony, rarely. Once a long time ago, an accompanist who had never sung before began to sing with me and I thought that I must be messing up! Turned out it was going well and she just got the urge to sing, she did not have a mic.

    I would rather not have the organist sing since we haven't practiced that and sometimes our phrasing doesn't match.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,791
    Carol, the prime job of a cantor is to encourage other people to sing, isn't it?
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    Oh definitely, Richard. Having the organist join in was just a shock to me, and as I said, caused me to doubt myself, which caused me to stop singing for a split second. In the second case, two voices were singing into microphones with different pronunciation and phrasing, which I think confuses the congregation. I can honestly say that I am 100% in favor of leading the congregation. We chant in English for certain Mass parts and I usually back off the mic because the congregation doesn't need me. I perform in other settings so I don't need to use Mass as a place to show off.

    Since most forum members are organists, I thought a cantor's perspective might be useful.
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    Carol... Have you thought about not using a microphone at all? I would be curious to hear what you thought and what people thought and what your parish priests thought.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,445
    Present parish has just over 150 seats and I have not and would not use a mic either from the front, the rear loft or as a fortnight ago when I led the Asperges from a pew having realised that cantor did not know it. Previous parish was a cathedral originally seating 3000 (though rebuilt after wartime destruction a bit larger) and I always used a mic, always from the front.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    At the age of 67, I don't think I could project over the volume of the organ in a church capable of seating 600+ people and 1960's architecture which creates dead spots. The pastor uses a microphone at the altar and ambo, but when he prays elsewhere such as over the casket, he is not really heard here in the choir loft. Of course, there is no organ playing while he is doing this. I do have the advantage of being up in the choir loft, but I don't think "no mic" is a realistic option.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,791
    I have friends who misuse the word "phrasing" when they mean rhythm: "…all the saints adore thee" vs. "falling down before thee". I assume though you mean articulation of phrases: "Help us witness to your purpose (breath) With renewed integrity" which becomes in the second verse "Give us all new fervor: draw us_Closer". A good organist would make either of these things clear to a congregation without using a microphone (or for that matter, a cantor: consider Anglican hymn singing.).
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    Richard

    I agree... a good organist truly doesn't need a cantor if he is leading correctly... but that is an art that takes acoustics, mood of congregation and instrument into consideration of the balance every second of the music.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    It is a question of both phrasing, rhythm, AND pronunciation (long E or long I for neither?).
    Thank you for making me more precise in these distinctions. The dirty little secret at our parish is that this part-time organist and several before him, just sends a list of hymn numbers and the Respond and Acclaim Psalm and Gospel Acclamation selections to all cantors. There is no set time for rehearsal. Often, I don't even know what the introduction to the hymn will be AND the introduction may vary from one time to the next. It certainly isn't optimal, but I go prepared, have good instincts, and he is good at giving entrance cues. Why do I do it? Because I feel called to do my best and I believe I am doing a good job given the circumstances. Those of you singing in places with a fantastic choir and a full-time music director should remember to feel grateful!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CharlesW
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