• Hello,
    Typesetting chant books has become a recent hobby of mine. For those of you who sing for the traditional Latin Mass, and use the classic Solesmes notation (this is my "target audience", but comments from others are welcome as well), would you be interested in a new book for chanting at Mass? If so, what content and attributes would you want in such a book?

    Specifically, I wonder about:
    (1) If there would actually be demand for a newly typeset book,
    (2) What content people would want to have,
    (3) What size book people would like,
    (4) What size the chant should be printed,
    (5) If translations would be in high enough demand to justify taking up the extra space,
    (6) Any other thoughts you all may have.

    Thank you!
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Personally, I wish there was a new liber that contained local translations akin to the Gregorian Missal. I realize such a thing would be tremendous in size, but with modern devices, it would be neat to have digitally where such things are not a concern.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,703
    We have had this discussion before...

    The Liber Usualis is not a 'useful book' the sections with the office are rarely used. The Liber Brevior would be a good one to reset.

    Anyway any book would need the following,
    Kyriale https://societyofstbede.files.wordpress.com/2022/09/kyriale.pdf
    It should have Credo VII, and could also include more versions of the Asperges and Vidi aquam.
    We would need the Propers of Sundays, Major feasts, and commons. Another option would be to re-set the Gradual Romanum.

    It may be worth doing an edition similar to the 'Mass and Office, 1957?' that had the English translation. Leaving out the Office.

    The size of chant could either be the Gradual size or the liber size.

    The size of the book should be the same as the Liber brevior, although some may prefer the larger print and size of the Graduale.

    Hymns etc are better catered for by Hymn books
  • nokel81
    Posts: 12
    I have spent the last few years doing just this actually (privately) for the Liber Brevior. But including the newer triduum, translations inline, and also the psalm tones inline.

    I haven't had much time to with on it recently because of my new family though.

    I got to the stage of making sure the formatting was all consistent. Nearly done in fact, or at least close to wanting people to doing editing passes with clean eyes.
  • tomjaw, I have already put together a Kyriale with all seven Credos, and all Ad Libitum tones for the Asperges and Vidi Aquam. Maybe you've already seen it. It is for a larger page size though, not Brevior size. I liked how the spacing came out and how each Credo takes only two pages, but it could be redone if necessary.

    I completely agree about leaving out the office parts (except Marian Antiphons). Notice I was careful to say Liber, not Liber Usualis.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • @nokel81
    When you say privately, do you mean it's just for your own personal use, or do you just mean you're not affiliated with any publisher? What your doing sounds like what people may find useful, so I don't want to typeset something that would just be redundant of someone else's work. Also, are you including the non sung propers like in a missal, or only the text and translations for the sung propers?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,703
    I agree the Marian Anthems should be added. I had admired your settings that I had seen posted here.
    My settings are here, https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/kyriale/
    I set at Gradule Romanum size but on A5 paper so we have an extra line of chant, and a bit more space.
    These have been produced for friends in Switzerland and Germany and may be published soon. I have been asked to add some of the other ad lib settings of the Asperges and Vidi... So modifications will appear in due course.

    The FSSP in Switzerland are interested in producing a new Liber Bevior... They have produced many books including the Missale Romanum https://introibo.net/liturgie.php
    Thanked by 1OMagnumMysterium
  • @tomjaw
    I hadn't realized you typeset that Kyriale. In my hasty glance through it I thought it was the one by Holger Peter Sandhofe. It's very nice. It's interesting how similar certain parts of it are to mine despite them being made independently of each other (I'm sure yours was first).

    I suppose if duplicate books are made it won't necessarily do any harm. I've been communicating with an FSSP seminarian here in the states who has done some typesetting, but it seems like individual efforts are more likely to happen than anything coordinated. And I think getting involved in anything overseas would be beyond me.

    To have my Kyriale be Graduale size, the pages would have to be 6x9. Do you think that large of pages would be generally undesirable?
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Tom, OMM,

    Wouldn't the better solution be to include (and promote) the Office?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,703
    The L.U. is only useful for chanting the Divine Office if you know how to use it. You also need to cope with up to 20 page changes.
    If you want to promote the office it would be better to produce booklets like this, http://gregorian-chant-hymns.com/publications/liturgy-of-hours.html
    I still think that for many choir members a lighter book with the Ordinary and Propers is the way forward. Traditionally we would sing from a Graduale at Mass, an Antiphonal for the day hours and a Nocturnale at night.
    Thanked by 1OMagnumMysterium
  • nokel81
    Posts: 12
    @OMagnumMysterium I mean that I have been doing it by myself without a publisher. I plan to make it public is some form.

    Currently I only plan to have the translations of the chants. Though maybe also having the collect and lections would be a good idea, just more work.

    Thanked by 1OMagnumMysterium
  • @CGZ
    I agree that we should be promoting the Office, but I think it is much more practical to use separate books. Like Tomjaw said, the Antiphonal and Nocturnale are the books for chanting the office. If a parish wanted books with pointed psalms to make things easier for people, they could probably use a new Vesperale, a booklet for Compline, and a booklet for Prime. That would be quite a good selection of hours. At our Parish, we use the Angelus press Compline booklets to chant Compline every Tuesday. The FSSP seminary has recently re-typeset a beautiful Vesperale with pointed psalms (although I don't think they're selling it publicly) which I was able to obtain a copy of.

    I do thing though that someone should reprint the most recent pre-conciliar Antiphonale, which is in the CMAA library. Also fix the errors and reprint Sandhofe's nocturnale.

    To chant the office from the Liber, you either need to have someone else be leading it and just follow along, or have been doing it for enough years that you can chant the hours in your sleep. And you're probably going to need all six of your ribbons.
    Perhaps slight exaggerations
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • @nokel81
    I see. I'm sure people would find such a book useful, because one of the issues right now is that you can't just print out the liber on a larger page without it being fuzzy.

    The more I think about it, the more I agree with the idea that people would probably get the most use out of a re-typeset Mass and Vespers without the office parts. I do realize that would be a massive undertaking, but I think it would be worth it in the long run for somebody to do it. What you're working on sounds pretty similar to that.

    Perhaps you'd rather not have anyone else touching your work, but if you decide you want to get it done a little faster, I could probably put in some time to help put things together or proof read. I don't have a ton of time either, but I could definitely do something, and it seems like a worthwhile endeavor. And I'm not affiliated with any publisher either, I just like nice typesetting.
  • nokel81
    Posts: 12
    I would have to do a bit of work to get my repository in a state where multiple people could feasibly work on it, since it has only ever been myself so far.

    I agree with that having multiple people work on it would be great.

    I love nice typesetting too.
  • @nokel81
    Well, whenever you're ready for multiple people to start working on it, let me know.