patriotic hymns : here comes the 'request line'
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    We have the "Blue Mass" once a year. It's on the feast of St. Michael the Archangel, who is the patron of police. The mass is the prescribed mass for St. Michael, so liturgically honoring the police doesn't make it different. They just all turn out in force to attend.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    We also have a Red Mass for lawyers!
    In any event, I'm afraid those who want to banish patriotic hymns from being sung on certain holidays have as much chance of being successful as those who wish to delete congregational hymns for Communion in this country. I am in agreement on both admirable goals, but Hedouble hockysticks will freeze over before the goal is accomplished. Or at least a lot of years. :) As I have said before, I schedule a patriotic hymn after the recessional, but that's as far as I go.

    Donna
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Well, this is all VERY telling!

    I know that praying for wayward leaders of a country is even MORE important than praying for ones that have their heads screwed on correctly! More power to us all for putting that in the Prayer of the Faithful. As the Gospel says, pray for your enemies.

    How about these?

    That the leaders of the United States would come to a knowledge that Jesus Christ is indeed God, we pray to the Lord.

    That the leaders of the United States would come to know that unborn children are human beings and that in taking their lives it is murder, we pray to the Lord.

    That the leaders of the United States would come to understand that we were founded upon Judeo/Christian principals and not whitewash the truth to other non-Christian nations, we pray to the Lord.

    Lord, that you would hold back judgement and show mercy to our nation because we have sinned against you, we pray to the Lord.

    Kathy:

    Here is what I believe is the right and dutiful way to approach praying for our nation.

    We should not ask God to BLESS those that do not follow Him or worse, work against His kingdom, (those are called enemies, oppressors or barbarians) even if they live and rule over us. We should pray for God's MERCY and then his JUDGEMENT upon them so that the situation will be changed. MERCY will change their own hearts, then their thinking IF THEY ARE WILLING. If that doesn't happen, well, so be it that the judgement of God come down upon us. It will only be for the better because even God's justice is better than the evil that will befall us otherwise.

    "At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me. "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna." MT 18:1-9
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    My goodness, Francis. You are sounding like a c-c-c-c can I even say it, conservative! Next you will be talking about sin, and Latin, and all that other archaic pre-Vatican II stuff. Heavenly days! ;-)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Francis, I'm not sure why we're not communicating. Why don't I give it one more try.

    This is the song we're singing, AFTER Mass, this Sunday. What words or phrases do you find objectionable? Is there anything here that suggests the United States is perfect? I don't see it. It seems to me to be saying a) we have been hugely blessed by God and b) we need grace in order to be good.

    It's not Adoro Te Devote, surely, but it's not Rule, Britannia or the Marseilliese either. It's not a warmongering song. It's a prayer to be made better.

    O beautiful for spacious skies,
    For amber waves of grain,
    For purple mountain majesties
    Above the fruited plain!
    America! America!
    God shed his grace on thee
    And crown thy good with brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea!

    O beautiful for pilgrim feet
    Whose stern impassioned stress
    A thoroughfare of freedom beat
    Across the wilderness!
    America! America!
    God mend thine every flaw,
    Confirm thy soul in self-control,
    Thy liberty in law!

    O beautiful for heroes proved
    In liberating strife.
    Who more than self their country loved
    And mercy more than life!
    America! America!
    May God thy gold refine
    Till all success be nobleness
    And every gain divine!

    O beautiful for patriot dream
    That sees beyond the years
    Thine alabaster cities gleam
    Undimmed by human tears!
    America! America!
    God shed his grace on thee
    And crown thy good with brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea!
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Anyone who is not moved by singing 'America the beautiful' has a heart of stone!

    But I do like Francis' prayers for the nation. And I'm not afraid to call myself by the 'c' word! :)
    Happy Birthday America! (And yes,I know the doc was not actually signed on the 4th)

    Donna
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I have been called the "c" word, the "t" word (traditionalist), the "L" word for the founder of SSPX, and a few unprintable ones, as well. I have reached the age where it bounces off me. Oh, I did forget the "P" word - patriarchal. Of course, there was the time that a genuine traditionalist got upset with me for not following the dictates of the Council of Trent. As I told her, I am Byzantine. We don't care about Trent.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    It's not Adoro Te Devote. . . but it can be sung to the melody, with only slight adaptation.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Heh.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Oh, Charles, I am always talking about SIN! But I would much rather talk about CONFESSION... the remedies are much more interesting than the flaws!

    Pre-Vatican Stuff? Hmmmm. Interesting term. Not sure what it means. It kind-a goes against the "hermeneutic of continuity", don't you think? OOOOPs! Giving away my conservative position! O well.

    Oh, Kathy! It's not about singing the hymn or not. The words are neither here nor there. I am just making people think a little, perhaps everything is no longer just hunky dory in the good ole' US of A!

    I will probably wind up playing it again this weekend just like last year. The U.S. is radically changing right under our noses into something we might not approve of when we wake up tomorrow... my grandparents defected from Germany to this country with the clothes on their backs. I wouldn't be so sure it couldn't happen again.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    There's always Malta -- oops.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Okay, it's fine, we don't have to see eye to eye, Francis. But I do think that this is more of a music forum than a politics forum.

    And I must say, "The words are neither here nor there"--this expression seems completely mistaken to me. And I think you care about words, too.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Kathy:

    You are absolutely right. You got me! I DO care about the words, but I sometimes get worn out in the fray.

    The title of this thread is "Patriotic Hymns". (Patriotic = Politics, Hymns = Religion) And I would take issue with you... this is more accurately a SACRED music forum. Text and Music. So WHY are we promoting patriotic agendas at the Mass?!

    Now you seem to be saying that we should have separation of politics and religion? Well, in a sense, that was my original point! The Mass is about The Mass! Not patriotism. Not about supporting and upholding a particular politcal regime. Why? Because regimes, countries, nations and powers come and go. They get corrupt and fall. You might say, God 'unblesses' them.

    Hence why this is such an interesting subject!

    When the nation is under God, it all seems to blend together better. But when the patriots go awry, it all becomes a very sticky wicket!

    I revist the regulations that eft posted above.

    32. The liturgy makes distinctions between persons according to their liturgical function and sacred Orders, and there are liturgical laws providing for due honors to be given to civil authorities. Apart from these instances, no special honors are to be paid in the liturgy to any private persons or classes of persons, whether in the ceremonies or by external display.

    53. Especially on Sundays and feasts of obligation there is to be restored, after the Gospel and the homily, "the common prayer" or "the prayer of the faithful." By this prayer, in which the people are to take part, intercession will be made for holy Church, for the civil authorities, for those oppressed by various needs, for all mankind, and for the salvation of the entire world.

    The Prayer of the Faithful should be jam packed with cries to God for our nation and its leaders. When we introduce patriotic hymns into the liturgy, we are giving special honor to a class of persons, clear and simple. That is why Bruce's suggestion is much better. It's neutral, but it still prays for the government at hand. I think we best stick to the liturgical calendar and leave the patriotism to the parades.

    BTW... separating religion from politics is as dangerous as separating anti-bodies from the bloodstream.

    Donnaswan... call me a stone if you must. When I was much younger I had patriotic sentiment for America, and the hymn then moved me. But of late, I have become 'disheartened' (become stone-ish?) for the ways of our government and the people.

    Kathy: We were ONCE blessed by God. But we must humbly ask ourselves, where is that blessing now!?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I do think that this is more of a music forum than a politics forum.

    Agreed with Kathy. I was once told to never discuss politics, sex, or religion in polite company. We don't need to go from one of those to two. I realize I may be in the minority here of not favoring a theocracy, but I would appreciate it if we could keep on the track of quality music and liturgy and save the political opinions for the call-in shows.

    On topic, I disagree with Donna that "banishing" patriotic music is impossible. Many people here are proof of that (I've done it AND banished hymns at Communion, at the same church!) It does require sensitivity to the congregation's sensibilities, and determining how far is "too far". One may be able to attain only having the closing hymn be patriotic. Another may be able to explain that he only does such on the holiday itself. Another may restrict himself to organ music, and yet another may do nothing at all. We do what we can, with sympathy for those who wish to show love for our great country.

    I find MUCH, MUCH more troublesome the idea that we are nothing but walking talking jukeboxes. Let's put our heads together on dealing with that disastrous notion.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    To the Tune:
    America, The Beautiful

    O Beautiful, O Wondrous One;
    Come lend your aid to US.
    Your gleaming mantel covers all
    Who glory in the Cross.
    Regina, Regina,
    True 'bearer of the light.'
    Where Christ is crowned true love is found
    From earth to heavens height.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    I continue to be surprised that this is a topic that is even considered in Catholic churches. It would not happen in most Anglican churches, most certainly not in Anglo-Catholic ones - they know that the 4th is not on the liturgical kalendar nor figures into the mass of the day. Even high Lutherans I have known made do with a modest and un-emotional singing of God Bless Our Native Land and would have been embarrased at the notion of the ridiculously emotional, inevitably domineering, and over-zealous gushiness of America the Beautiful. (And, as for 'the mass being over' after the dismissal - of course, technically it is; but, IF one is doing hymns, they are a part of the mass, and the hymn at the dismissal should, like the others, reflect the liturgical season if not the liturgy of the day. This is poor (maybe even silly) reasoning on the part of those who need to take their musical and liturgical responsibilities more seriously - at All times.)
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 762
    kathy wrote:

    It's not Adoro Te Devote, surely, but it's not Rule, Britannia or the Marseilliese either. It's not a warmongering song..

    I'm sure Kathy didn't meam to say that "Rule, Brittania" is sung in British churches, but just in case anyone thinks mi-understands her, it's not. The Anglicans sometimes sing the first verse of the national anthem, which is a prayer in hymn form for the well-being of the monarch. Just occasionally they might sing the second verse, but only once have I heard the third:

    O Lord, our God, arise,
    Scatter her enemies,
    And make them fall.
    Confound their politics,
    Frustrate their knavish tricks,
    On Thee our hopes we fix,
    God save us all.

    That's telling 'em.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    That's not a bad third verse at all. I hadn't heard that one. I didn't think you would sing "Rule, Brittania" in your churches. Especially since Brittania doesn't rule as much as it once did. But I think it would be safe to say that far too many Anglicans and Catholics these days don't believe in much of anything outside of themselves. It doesn't really matter so much about over-emphasizing God or country, when you don't have faith in either.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    After the Mass I want to remember the glory of God, not the crowning of the country. A country is an instrument of GOd like a family , community... in a different scale, where we can work together and help each other for His golry. If we are praying for the country, that is good, and remember that our nation is also at the hand of His mercy and all the nations praise Him, Him only. Anything that distracts this focus with our sentiments cannot be part of the litrugy. (To me, prelude and postlude are parts of the liturgy, maybe not techinically, but because they are the time I prepare and reflect on the liturgy.)
    I'm sure Francis and other musicinas here are moved by patriotic hymns, but they also know when, where and how to express those sentiments and emotions.
    Can the priest and the people have a special prayer time with a couple of patriotic hymns after the Mass for His mercy on this country?
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Dear Gavin. I know there are some churches where it is possible NOT to sing a Communion 'song' or sing a patriotic hymn.I just meant not on a large scale. More power to you if you can do it. I happen to live in the south, in a smallish town, altho I am Music Director in a medium city and believe me, it would be very difficult to ignore Memorial Day, and the 4th. Even at my home church, Episcopal, whose organist/choirmaster does no junk at all, the Priest always requests some patriotic hymns on the 4th or the Sunday closest thereto.

    Donna
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "It would not happen in most Anglican churches, most certainly not in Anglo-Catholic ones - they know that the 4th is not on the liturgical kalendar nor figures into the mass of the day."

    I'm usually the first and only one to jump to the aid of liturgical protestants here, but this is a false characterization. St. John's Episcopal Church in Detroit, a VERY traditional Anglo-Catholic church (incense always, chanted propers in Latin, occasional orchestral Mass, and the '28 BCP and '40 hymnal) sings the last verse of "My Country 'Tis of Thee" at every Mass. This is also a rather conservative parish.

    Look in the 1928 BCP. Mine has lessons for Independence Day - July 4. And look at the Kalendar on July 4. You are wrong that it isn't on the Kalendar - it's right there!

    1662 BCP. I see in mine "Forms of Prayer for the Anniversary of the day of the Accession of the Reigning Sovereign." When's the last time any bad ol' Catholics wanted nationalist music on the day of the President's inauguration? Morning prayer ends with "A Prayer for the King's Majesty" and "A Prayer for the Royal Family". The first Anglican liturgy begins part of it with: "AND here specially let us pray for our dere and soveraigne lorde the kynges majesty..." and goes on for a paragraph. And what would one expect from a church body headed by the reigning monarch of England?

    I agree with your point, M. Jackson, as I too despise the blending of church and state. But despite all their grander liturgies, the Anglicans, of a conservative or liberal stripe, are MUCH worse about bringing state-worship into their liturgies. (Although I will concede my Episcopal church doesn't do any patriotic music, but it's really not very high-church)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Donna: my point was more that one CAN make those small improvements, if one is tactful, intelligent, and pastoral about it. Maybe one can go from 4 America songs to one at the end. Maybe one can go from every "holiday weekend" (talk about an oxymoron!) to only on the day. And some might even be content with only having one hymn at the recessional (as I am, so long as it's an actual hymn and not just a "yay yay America's awesome" song).
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Now I can't get that tune out of my head.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Donna. You know your parish the best. We all start from where we are. If singing a couple of patriotic hymns on July 4th is the last thing you need to worry about, you are very lucky. (My parish is far from it.)
    Vatican II gave us lots of options and guidelines to make it possible (of course there are limits.) There are other positive things you can do to bring the music in your parish to a higher level for the sacred liturgy. You can start chanting responses, sing simple Ordinaries in latin, and the choir can sing Propers (either in vernacular or Latin, whatever is easier to introduce.) Soon the congregation will not miss singing many hymns during Mass.
    God bless,
    Mia
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Well, as I have said at least twice on this discussion- we only sing America the beautiful after the recessional hymn and not any patriotic hymns during Mass. We also sing lots of Latin and chant the ordinary during Advent and Lent, the Psalm for the day and larger works with orchestra on various occasions.

    Donna
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    How about instead of patriotic music, this instead:
    "Faith of Our Fathers"

    "....Faith of our fathers, we will strive
    To win all nations unto thee;
    And through the truth that comes from God,
    We all shall then be truly free.

    Faith of our fathers, holy faith!
    We will be true to thee till death."

    It reminds us that true freedom only comes from God, and is open to all nations. Yes, my own church programs "America the Beautiful", that's about it, except for the school ceremonies, where the "Star Spangled Banner" and "Texas our Texas" are included as a matter of ceremony.

    I had a three way conversation a few years back with a friend and a deacon about putting the national flag in the sanctuary of a Catholic ministry center. I thought no, since the Church is supposed to be open for all.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    We have both a U.S. flag and a Papal Flag in opposite ends of the transept. I don't remember us making any apologies to anyone for that, and they have been there at least since my earliest memory in that church, 1965. While we are open to all, it is not unheard of for us to tell complainers they might be happier elsewhere.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    This just showed up in my email.
    Francis,

    Happy Independence Day to our US visitors, and blessings to our other readers worldwide!  Be sure to check out nearly 60 patriotic hymns, found in the "National" topic on our site:

    http://nethymnal.org/top/national.htm
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    This could be a fitting hymn.

    Judge eternal, throned in splendor,
    Lord of lords and King of kings,
    With Thy living fire of judgment
    Purge this land of bitter things;
    Solace all its wide dominion
    With the healing of Thy wings.

    Still the weary folk are pining
    For the hour that brings release;
    And the city’s crowded clangor
    Cries aloud for sin to cease.
    And the homesteads and the woodlands
    Plead in silence for their peace.

    Crown, O God, Thine own endeavor;
    Cleave our darkness with Thy sword;
    Feed the faint and hungry heathen
    With the richness of Thy Word;
    Cleanse the body of this nation
    Through the Gospel of the Lord.
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Francis- Is that sung to Bryn Calfaria? And I like Faith of our Fathers- a little 'Victorian' but so much better than 'Our God is an awesome God' :)

    Donna
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Donnaswan

    I do not know anything about the tune for the hymn, but if you look it up on the link above, it does include tune names including a MIDI file that plays it for you.

    When I started looking through all the patriotic hymns on that site, I was most struck about the common awareness of sin and failing, especially among our own peoples. That mentallity seems to have evaporated into a self sufficient apathy that pervades our society.

    That kind of pride and indifference concerns me deeply. Hence, why the posting of this thread and other similar threads I have posted here.

    At the end of the day, sacred music is that which is at the service of the words of the liturgy. Hence why I insist that this is not just a "music" forum, but one that marries music to the prayers and intentions of the Rite which we, as it's musical directors, have a great responsibility to carry out properly.

    Through its music, we hold the power to steer the people to a proper attitude and disposition before God within the liturgy. This is a responsibility that causes me to shudder in fear and trembling and to execute as God would desire... not personal choice, taste, or pressure from others, but as God pleases. How does one find that balance? Prayer, holiness, counsel, knowledge, humility, talent, conviction and whatever else we can muster to do our job the best we can. This forum represents a number of those assets, and I value everyone's counsel who is part of this forum. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,414
    Well! Gavin really pounded me! Of course, all that he says is true. But, in my past life as an Anglo-Catholic from birth I do not recall that the prayer book items he cites were actually put into 'liturgical' practice at most Anglican-Episcopal churches. (Save at some where there lingers yet from the World War era the custom of remembering the nation on a weekly basis.) They were ignored the same way knowing Anglicans ignored the absurd 'Thiry-nine Articles' which appeared in the back (the further back the better!) of the BCP. At any rate, one should not confuse the acceptable practice of praying for the sovereign or the state or the president with the hearty singing of nationalistic hymns, which, even when they are 'prayers', are shabbily disguised gloryings in the state. (Do people get anywhere near as tearful singing Gloria or Sanctus as they do in singing some patriotic anthem?) Their performance at mass is an embarassment to all who comprehend what the mass is. It is as ridiculously incongruous as would be eucharistic hymns during a victory parade or a sporting event.
    Why is it that while so many people cannot abide so much as a whiff of the Church in the State they think it quite normal that the State should be inserted into the Church?
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Francis, I'm so grateful to have a musician like you for our church. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the reponsibilities of concientious musician. I believe that every effort and struggle that the church music directors carry for glorifying God will be well rewarded. And I pray for the strength and wisom of all the music directors, especially those I met through this forum.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    We opened the periodical "Magnificat" to recite Prayer for the Morning. This day was demarked "Saturday, July 4, St. Elizabeth of Portugal; Blessed Virgin Mary, Independence Day; First Saturday of the Month."

    The hymn is untitled, with the refrain "Let freedom ring!" The general tenor of the hymntext (Geniveve Glen, OSB.) concerns our responsibility to re-enact Christ's Gospel both in fertile fields and streets of stone, wherein Justice works amid weeds of want and choking greed, mercy among tangled thorns of anger, scorn and disbelief, our Founder's dreams unfulfilled as we have harvests yet to reap....we tend what God has planned."
    Then Ps.37
    Hosea 10:12
    Response: "Free us to follow your ways, O Lord!"
    Concluding prayer: "God of all peoples and nations, you have those who live in this land to pursue your vision of freedom, justice, and peace for all. Keep us faithful to your gifts, that we may use them for the world's good and the good of our own nation, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen."

    In this periodical, for Mass, the editor(s) opted for prayers and collects for Independence Day, for example-
    Opening Prayer: "All powerful Father, today we rededicate ourselves to your service, and to the works of justice and freedom for all. As you have called us from many peoples to be one nation, help us to give witness in our lives and in our life as a nation to the rich diversity of your gifts. We ask this.....Amen."

    After the solemn blessing the periodical reprints, under "Meditation of the Day," the following:

    "Magnificat of America

    America, our America!
    Banish doubts and fears.
    Thy Mother is our hope of Peace,
    More mighty She than statesman
    Embroiled with bluff and brawl,
    Bartering lives away.
    Thy Mother is
    our Power,
    More potent She than hostile hordes
    Drawn up in battle-array.
    Mary is God's Spirit-shrine
    Whence all blessings flow,
    Prospering
    thee in goodness.

    America, our America!
    With duty all sublime,
    Thou art consecrated to Mary.
    Her mission is through thee;
    She feeds
    with thy hand,
    She soothes with thy touch;
    She frees with thy strength,
    Giving homes through thee,
    Spreading joy through thee,
    To be light
    through thy light,
    To be hope through thy hope,
    To be love through thy
    love.

    America, our America!
    With destiny all sbulime
    Thou art
    predestined through Mary;
    Through Mary, God chose thee,
    Sealing thee for
    greatness,
    Watching thee with care,
    Nourishing thee with peoples
    Brave, hardy peoples,
    Champions of freedom.
    Bright dawns thy
    destiny,
    Nearer draws thy goal,
    With Mary for thy Star."
    Cardinal Francis Joseph Spellman

    Just reporting. "Magnificat" acknowledgements in the July 09 issue, page 426, list all source documents and legal provisions for their reprints. Going to its website, I couldn't locate any official affiliation. The publisher is listed as Pierre DuMont, with two Dominican friars as primary editors. I could not locate an NO or Impimatur. A brief history of the periodical tells of Mssr. DuMont seeking permission from the CDW, and receiving no official approbation to compile his envisioned worship aide. He launches his effort, as I said, putting Fr. Cameron, OP, as Editor in Chief.

    The only thing besides this account I reluctantly bring to the thread topic is the well-worn cliche that, ultimately, "All politics are (inevitably-my addition) local." This seems appropriate to ecclesial, liturgical, theological arenas as well as secular and patriotic ones.

    "After all... tomorrow is another day. " Margaret Mitchell, "Gone with the Wind"
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Coming soon, the Patriotic Alleluia:
    image

    :-)

    (Lest anyone think this is for real: the melody is from "My Country, 'Tis of Thee".)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    For Charles: Because Magnificat is a periodical, it would seek "ecclesiastical permission" to publish, rather than the Nihil obstat or Imprimatur which are used for books.

    If it is treated like a prayer book, the local ordinary of the place where it is published could grant the permission. If it is treated like a liturgical book, the USCCB could grant the permission: the job of doing so would be delegated to an official in the Department of Divine Worship. I expect it is treated similarly to the mass-produced Missal booklets used in parishes.

    Canons 822-832 regulate the publishing of religious books and other printed materials.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Patriotic Alleluia-

    Looks great, sounds good. Problem solved. I hope praise bands don't take it from us.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Well, CharlesW, thankfully my comment was ignored. An American flag with a papal one was put there anyway. Anyway, just got back from OLOA---there was really fitting him that was used as a recessional, to the tune of "My Country of Thee" (or was it "America"?) which, without specifically mentioning America, praises God for our freedoms while at the same time asking that this blessing be extended to all nations.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,508
    Interestingly, the Offertory antiphon for the day is:

    Populum humilem salvum facies, Domine,
    et oculos superborum humiliabis; quoniam quis Deus praeter
    te, Domine? (You will save the humble nation, O Lord, and
    bring down the eyes of the proud; For who is God, other
    than you, O Lord?) --

    (thanks, eft94530)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    OK... I played three Masses.

    One older woman came up to me at the end of the postlude (Saturday on the 4th) and let me have it. I smiled and thanked her for her comments. Other than that, no one said a thing.

    I did "God's National Anthem" as the Recessional for each Mass : To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King. It does pray that all nations would come under God's rule.

    To Jesus Christ, our Sov'reign King,
    Who is the world's salvation,
    All praise and homage do we bring,
    And thanks and adoration.

    Refrain:
    Christ Jesus Victor, Christ Jesus Ruler!
    Christ Jesus, Lord and Redeemer!

    2. Thy reign extend, O King benign,
    To ev'ry land and nation,
    For in Thy kingdom, Lord divine,
    Alone we find salvation.
    (Refrain)

    3. To Thee and to Thy Church, great King,
    We pledge our hearts' oblation,
    Until before Thy throne we sing,
    In endless jubilation.
    (Refrain)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Francis, she let you have it over no patriotic music or what? I would just say "sorry, a veteran with one leg said that he wants me to do To Jesus Christ. If you think I should ignore his request, I guess you don't love America as much as I do."
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    Francis; How funny! I did ICH GLAUB AN GOTT to the words "The Master came to bring good news! As the entrance hymn, though.
    Donna
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Gavin:

    She marched up and said,

    I'll have you know that for as long as I can remember this is the first time we have not sung a patriotic song for either Memorial Day or July 4 weekend! I just thought I should let you know.

    You'd think I was denying her the Eucharist itself!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    Donnaswan

    will have to look that one up .
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Sorry to bring this up now. But I kept thinking of "Faith of Our Fathers.' Are the Fathers in this hymn refer to those in the early Church, those who wrote and taught to defend our Chirstian Faith, or the founding fathers of the nation? Would it be misleading if we sing this in the Mass on national holidays?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Certainly not the founding fathers. My understanding is that it refers to those who suffered for the Catholic faith in England.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    LOL. Ya know, I just realized why no one complained. Father's homily was all about how human nature is so prone to complain about the smallest thing, even when someone does sometihing beautiful, we can find that one little thing that we don't like and complain about it. I think the whole congregation was suffering under a "healthy guilt trip" otherwise there would have been more outspoken opinions.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    "Judge eternal, throned in splendor" is set to the tune St. Leonard in The Hymnal 1940. It is as easy a hymn as America - form AAB.

    Lest we all forget, the Baltimore Catechism was assembled in the late 19th century with a view towards teaching Catholics just how to be both religious and patriotic. Catholics were viewed as 2nd class citizens because they seem anti-state at every turn. I think it is actually healthy to acknowledge our country in our Church. We just need to have balance, and care to preserve the core of Catholic worship - the entirety of the Mass - from secularism. There ARE ways to do this.

    Also note that not all patriotic "songs" can be classified as "hymns".
  • Donnaswan
    Posts: 585
    OK, one of my best cantors just called to tell me she completely lost it singing 'America the Beautiful" as the closing hymn, at the 10:30 and bawled through every verse. I didn't plan it that way, I had already done it for two masses myself as a 'Postlude' . But here is the boss telling her they would sing America as a prayer. (And omit the posted closing hymn) He has so mellowed over this. The whole thing with the Postlude was b/c he didn't like patriotic hymns, but was OK with doing it after the Recessional. Sometimes you just can't win.

    Then I went to the Anglicans, and we sang 'God of our Fathers' for entrance, 'Jerusalem my happy home' for Gradual, "I vow to Thee my country' for Offertory!!,' My country tis of thee' for second Communion hymn and went out to 'Faith of Our Fathers'. I have a feeling most of the posters on this site would have run from the church! LOL I'm not telling what the Postlude was.:) Also, b/c was last Sunday of interim priest, he decided to wear red vestments b/c he looks better in red, and the green ones are old and ugly! sigh!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,817
    When state and national musicians start playing "To Jesus Christ Our Sovereign King" during the parade, then I would encourage us to think twice about including patriotism in the Mass. How likely is that? NOT! Our government basically promotes syncretism, which goes against the very dogma of the RC faith.
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