Song of Farewell and In Paradisum
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    Forgive me if this has been answered a few times, but I did not find my answer after reading many older threads:

    I am playing for an OF funeral mass in which In Paradisum is requested as a recessional hymn. (That's wonderful and the first time someone has taken up my offer to use the chant.) However, now I'm questioning what to use at the Song of Farewell. All the SoF I know- we generally use Smolarski's Old Hundreth- are basically English translations of In Paradisum. It doesn't make sense to me to duplicate the text. So...

    What do I use at the incensing? Funeral is tomorrow so my time to learn something is limited.
    I appreciate your advice.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,915
    We do the "Song of Farewell" by Sands:
    https://youtu.be/QOZ0nDK7p00
    (albeit not so dirge-y)
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,915
    (I inherited the Sands, although I don't mind it. I've offered the version based on old hundredth for a long time but no one has ever chosen it.)

    PS-- here's my english/latin transcription of In Paradisum: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6080596f62a0455c6b40e46b/t/62b477048089a6480be49e70/1655994116340/In+Paradisum+•+English+Transcription+•+Richardson.pdf
  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    I am familiar with the Sands, but my point was that the words for that song of farewell are basically what I'd be singing (in Latin) at the In Paradisum. That's my issue- duplicating the words in the liturgy.
  • cmb
    Posts: 88
    The Smolarski/Old Hundredth is a translation of the Subvenite, not In Paradisum. So, it's highly appropriate to do both.
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Would St. John Henry Newman's text Help, Lord, the souls that thou hast made or Lead Kindly Light, or, not by Newman, The King of Love my shepherd is help?
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    Yes, they’re two separate things for two separate occasions.

    Subvenite (“Saints of God, come to his aid,” or some paraphrase of same) during incensing of the coffin.

    In Paradisum (“May the angels lead you into paradise”) at the end as the coffin is carried out.

    Check with the celebrant, too and make sure he’s aware you’re fixing to sing it; I’ve found many are worn out and sadly expect to depart to “Danny Boy” or something else, so they read the In Paradisum out of the book before the final music. This is unnecessary if you’re going to sing it.
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,915
    You could try my "chant hymn" (ie- a hymn I wrote in a chant style)

    "Jesus, Lord, have mercy" which I do at funerals on occasion. (Basically, whenever I'm given free reign to choose the music myself.)
    Jesus, Lord, Have Mercy (Organ + Chant combined).pdf
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    Thanked by 2Joseph Michael Roborgelmeister
  • PhilipPowell
    Posts: 117
    (I inherited the Sands, although I don't mind it. I've offered the version based on old hundredth for a long time but no one has ever chosen it.)

    Easy fix - don't offer the option. I just say that the Subvenite in some way will be sung and I pick a setting (Bartlett or OLD HUNDRETH) based on the cantor.

    PolskaPiano: the Bartlett chant (attached in the PDF as Final Commendation) isn't too hard and I think really boosts the solemnness of the moment.
    mass-for-the-dead-barttlett.pdf
    577K
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,050
    The Subvenite / Saints of God is assigned to the final commendation, so I'm not sure why the In paradisum / May the angels is being done at that point (see the 1974 Graduale Romanum, p. 692). It's confusing at best to call the latter a "Song of Farewell" as this is the official title of the music at the final commendation. I suppose we could choose our own text at this point, but why not go with what's in the Graduale?

    I second the idea that you simply don't offer (music) options for the "Song of Farewell." Most people aren't aware it exists in the first place.

    The chant-style setting by Theodore Marier (attached) sets the official text and I think it works well.
    Saints of God - Marier (HPSC 540) - organ copy.pdf
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  • PolskaPiano
    Posts: 255
    CMB- you are right!! (Also, Gamba) Yes, Smolarski's is the Subvenite! I think I got mixed up because the last funeral (at the pastor's request) I sang May Choirs of Angels (O Danny Boy) and I had those lyrics in my head. Sheesh. My problem was not really a problem at all. Thanks for catching that!
  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 164
    I've often used Richard Proulx's Saints of God and there is also a setting by Chepponis which is rather nice and singable (although the score puts the descant where the melody should be)
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 719
    This hymn was sung at my grandfathers furneral in 1957 before I was born. I don't know if it was sung before Mass or as the "Song of Farewell" but it certainly could be done for either. I would like to have this hymn sung at my funeral someday and I think it would make a perfect "Song of Farewell."
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    At the risk of dragging this post off topic, as I was thinking about Don's post I asked myself what I would like sung at my funeral, but not in place of the In Paradisum or the Subvenite or any other required, proper texts.

    I came up with two, pieces, but one won't make the cut. Sir Edward Bairstow's I sat down under his shadow is one of them, and the other is Sir Charles Stamford's Beati quorum via integra est, but I should make other plans, in case it is more appropriate to sing Non nobis, Domine (I've written a setting some years ago) or some setting of In manus tuas Domine or Nunc Dimittis
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    "In Manus Tuas, Domine"
    Ned Tipton and the St. John's Cathedral Compline Choir, Los Angeles
    width="1280" height="720">
    Thanked by 3Chris Garton-Zavesky ServiamScores dad29
  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 315
    I echo rich_enough and add that I typically use Weber's "subvenite" at the song of farewall (english chant, loosely set to the traditional gregorian melody) and in paradisum at the recessional (often followed immediately by whatever gaudy song the family chose).
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,915
    Charles, your motet is gorgeous. Where can I find the score?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Here you are -- also available at CPDL -- the original was for ATBarB, but the SATB would probably work better.

    Giffen-In manus tuas, Domine.pdf
    129K
    Giffen-In manus tuas, Domine-SATB.pdf
    129K
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,915
    but the SATB would probably work better.
    considering one of my former sopranos has "graduated" to pulling double-duty with the tenors on occasion, perhaps not. lol! But thank you!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • RomanticStringsRomanticStrings
    Posts: 340
    I know I am dragging up a two-year-old conversation, but does anyone know why the In paradisum is sung during the Final Commendation instead of the Subvenite/"Song of Farewell"? How did that get boogered so badly?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,819
    why the In paradisum is sung during the Final Commendation instead of the Subvenite
    It isn't, is it?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,370
    It’s rather that the Subvenite replaces the Libera Me (the one which is always done at the coffin or catafalque and during the full Matins as the ninth responsory). The Subvenite is thus displaced from the entrance and the Libera Me is omitted entirely. There’s another chant with the same incipit, also used if only the third nocturn is sung, according to the weekday in question, but err. It isn’t the same.
  • liampmcdonough
    Posts: 301
    The ritual instructions allow libera me to be sung at the "final commendation"
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,370
    Well which Libera Me? The real one? Because the gradual is in conflict on this point. And is this explicit in the Latin only or also in the English translation?

    And I just checked: the Ordinariate preserves the “real” Libera Me. The NO doesn’t.
  • liampmcdonough
    Posts: 301
    It just says "some other song" may be sung, so obviously the "real" libera me would be an appropriate choice. Same thing at the entrance rights, so you could sing the Subvenite there if you wanted
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,370
    But then the gradual is more specific, so.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 481
    The gradual also allows (for pastoral reasons) for one of the responsories given at the final commendation to be used at the entrance before the introit - so the Subvenite may occupy its traditional place.

    I have been instructed to take these two options - Subvenite at entrance, Libera me de morte at final commendation - once before, since it is entirely licit, though not encouraged by the current liturgical books.
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