Urgent Prayers
  • I'm obviously behind the information curve, but I've just received word that the Institute of Christ the King will be (effectively) shut down in Chicago on August 1, 2022. Yes, that's two weeks away.

    Beautiful liturgy is the special goal of the Institute.
    Please, offer your prayers for a conversion of heart for Blase Cardinal Cupich, and for the fortitude and faith of the faithful who will be immediately impacted by this, and those who will struggle forward beyond Chicago's south side.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    To quote the Curé of Ars for the second time this week, “what a pity… what a pity…”*






    (For those who don’t know, he would sometimes gently sigh and mutter this aloud to himself while people were recounting their sins in the confessional.)
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    Also, this speaks volumes about the man who has been promoted to a position of influence and authority in regards to liturgy for the universal church. Terrifying.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 856
    I'm waiting to hear why this is a "good thing". It's bound to be coming.

    At least they own their own property in Chicago so the diocese can't rip it from them after all that money spent.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    I'm waiting to hear why this is a "good thing". It's bound to be coming.


    Professional Catholics love to beat us until morale improves.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,743
    As we would say in the South, "Cupich ain't worth killin'." And that was before this happened. One could move farther east to Washington and find another one.
    Thanked by 1ghmus7
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    If only uprooting your whole family’s life and employment were so simple.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    I watched many of the Masses online led by Blase Cardinal Cupich!!!! I'll start watching others. Any recommendations for online Mass? I currently can't attend Mass in person due to a very difficult situation.
  • Alex,

    Why did you go to the trouble of watching his Masses, in particular?

    a) You live in Chicago or environs
    b) You want to know about this important Prince of the Church, who now exercises some control over the liturgy in a formal capacity.
    c) You felt the need to try to find out why some people rant about horrid this man is, who is persecuting the Church.
    d) Something else.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    Something else. I'm a Texas boy, specifically in Houston, and I needed to watch Mass and his popped up. The church is VERY beautiful and I didn't hear anything persecutory except for the Deacon's irreverent salute to Chicago-based sports teams. But I'll avoid those online Mass videos. Any suggestions for Latin Mass videos?
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,895
    If you're doing Chicago, do St, John Cantius. SSPX Utrecht isn't bad.
    Unless you're homebound, I'd suggest the real thing.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    SSPX? No... Schismatic. FSSP is appropriate.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 856
    When so many dioceses (including my own)deserted their flocks during Covid the SSPX actually acted like true shepherds.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 365
    Cantius is a wonderful parish, and their YouTube channel is well-produced. I'd say check them out for sure.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 488
    What’s the source/more details on the Chicago ICKSP? Their website says nothing.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,743
    Something else. I'm a Texas boy, specifically in Houston, and I needed to watch Mass and his popped up.


    Wait. You are in Houston and have Our Lady of Walsingham? Why would you want to go to or watch anything else?
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    SSPX is objectively schismatic. FSSP was a worthy remedy for those who wanted to remain with the Church while maintaining the Tridentine Mass. I'm sure there are wonderful people who are SSPX clergy and laity but a schism is still a schism.

    @CharlesW I will have to check it out. I've never knew of Our Lady of Walsingham until now.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    SSPX is objectively schismatic.
    Just your friendly neighborhood reminder that this is a pernicious misunderstanding (read: lie) and that the official papal envoy sent to audit the SSPX on behalf of Pope Francis (Bp. Athanasius Schneider) officially states that the SSPX are not in schism… as does the former Cdl. Prefect of the Apostolic Nunciatura (Cdl. Burke) and they (SSPX priests) were even granted faculties during the extraordinary jubilee year of mercy to officiate weddings and hear confessions… (not something given to other genuinely schismatic groups)

    They have irregular canonical status, but they are not in schism, thus spake official mouthpieces of the hierarchy. (And we should also remember that all the excommunications of decades past were formally rescinded, so they have legitimate bishops as well.).

    And for the record: I am not affiliated with the SSPX in any way, although I have attended masses at their chapels on occasion.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,743
    achoyce9, Walsingham is an Ordinariate parish - actually, cathedral I think - that has the Anglican Use mass. Here is their Wiki description.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Our_Lady_of_Walsingham_(Houston)

    Jackson goes there and could tell you more.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,258
    Walsingham is indeed the cathedral of the Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter.
    High mass is at 11.15.
    You would be welcomed if you were to inspect it or make it your home.

    By the way, the relics of St Bernadette are on display at Our Lady of Walsingham through tomorrow, the 17th.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    Well, the Institute isn't going to publish on their website before, um, Sunday Mass, now are they. But apparently nobody read between the lines in the bulletin, in which the rector's note explicitly mentions persecution.

    In re: the SSPX, if they were schismatic, Rome wouldn't bother giving them faculties for confession, marriages, etc., they wouldn't be laicized via the Holy See, and they wouldn't deal with the Roman Rota (and sometimes the CDF) to set up tribunals in order to judge clerics. Nor could we licitly attend Mass there or give to the collection, which goes to the upkeep and to the travel expenses of the priest.

    (Serviam, you wrote nunciatura, but you meant Signatura, and FWIW, Cardinal Burke is not very down on the SSPX at all.)

    I can understand being squeamish about attending their Masses, at least if one has a diocesan TLM or the FSSP, ICRSP, etc. but if the choices are about even or there's no TLM, I understand going to the SSPX without hesitation. Or even the dumb stuff like the ease of obtaining a baptism within a few days of the baby's birth in the lucky event that you live close by to an actual priory with a full-time priest; I've seen people turn to the SSPX even though they are otherwise attendees at the diocesan-approved TLM.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw ServiamScores
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 21
    I will be going to Walsingham for the first time this Sunday! I am certainly looking forward to it.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,258
    Laura, if you go to Walsingham this Sunday arrive very early for the 11.15 high mass because there will be many, many folks there for the relics of St Bernadette.
    The other masses are -
    8.00 - which features a Latin Gregorian ordinary sung by the people.
    9.00 - which is almost as high as the high mass
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    Thank you for the invitation! Unfortunately, I cannot attend any Mass in person due to present difficulties. Maybe in the future!
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,134
    I think that Walsingham has a Livestream; but I do know that they post Masses on YouTube. And Bishop Lopes, bishop of the Ordinariate, is (or will be, I don't know when terms start) the USCCB Liturgy chairman.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    Matthew, you’re right: I did mean ‘signatura’. My observation about Burke, however, was his remark that the whole situation was a disciplinary issue inside the church, not negotiations with outsiders. I didn’t mean to imply that he supported them (by contrast, Schneider speaks and writes about them very favorably).
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    Right, that was what I was getting at.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 142
    @Salieri, I'm gonna watch my home parish's live stream. They're Novus Ordo, but the priest has helped me A LOT through some rocky times. Plus, I could not find a live stream for Our Lady of Walsingham. I'd like to support my home parish.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,743
    Although I am Byzantine, I would drop in to Walsingham from time to time if I lived near Houston. Alas, East Tennessee is too far away.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Given the anniversary, today, perhaps we should ask the Martyrs of Compiegne to soften Robespierre's heart this time?
  • >> In re: the SSPX, if they were schismatic, Rome wouldn't bother giving them faculties for confession, marriages, etc.

    and not just for the Holy Year. It should be noted that in November 2016, Pope Francis' Apostolic Letter, Misericordia et Misera, extended the faculties indefinitely.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,258
    Laura -
    Did you go to Walsingham this morning?
    How did you like it?
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 21
    Jackson,

    I did go this morning! I greatly appreciated your recommendation to arrive early for the 11:15. I did not see your message until after 9:00, but I left the house 20 minutes earlier than I had originally planned and barely managed to find a seat in the very back pew.

    I was moderately surprised at how small the church is, but it was lovely and of course, the choir did a magnificent job. Unfortunately, I was unable to stay anywhere near as long as I would have liked, since shortly after Mass ended an usher told everyone in my pew that we had to exit. I also seemed to be the only person within a 10-foot radius who attempted to sing the hymns, even though the church was packed (and as an alto I undoubtedly stood out like a sore thumb). However, this might have had something to do with being in the back pew along with a large number of visitors for the relics of St. Bernadette. I would like to return on a more typical Sunday to see if any of these less-positive aspects are different.

    I just moved to Houston a little over a week ago and am still trying to figure out where I would like to attend regularly on Sundays. Unfortunately, I live in the Clear Lake area, and southeast Houston seems to be a wasteland with regard to reverent liturgy, unless you include the SSPX chapel in Dickinson. Walsingham is 33 miles from where I live and the drive is 40 minutes one way, assuming light traffic. As such, it is a bit farther than I would like.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 356
    Over n Fr. Z’s blog, where this is written about, someone added a clarification in the comments section. Since the Institute owns the property, Cupich can’t kick them out of the Diocese and that they’re prohibited from public ministry. They can still minister to the members of their lay association. All this would do is cause a lot more people to join their lay association.

    This feels like it could be an old school Disney’s Princess Movie.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Sponsa,

    I don't have more facts, but if you prohibit a priest from celebrating Mass and the sacraments, his whole reason for existence is called into question, which may very well be the point of any attempt to suffocate the Institute.

    How do they minister to the members of their lay association (you must mean the Society of the Sacred Heart) if they can't celebrate Mass and the Sacraments?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 356
    How do they minister to the members of their lay association (you must mean the Society of the Sacred Heart) if they can't celebrate Mass and the Sacraments?


    They can still celebrate Mass and the sacraments for the members of their Lay Association because they are effectively members, so this would be private ministry, not public ministry.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,998
    Legalism at it’s finest.
  • Sponsa,

    It would depend on the language of the decree. It also depends on the canonical difference between public and private in this context. A "private" Mass, for example, can be attended by hundreds of people, so long as it's not advertised in the parish bulletin.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    well, the term "private Mass" was and is a term with multiple meanings. Canonical niceties don't matter when people don't care about the law; also, the Sacred Heart Society is not open to just anyone, and being admitted as a full member happens after a period of discernment, which begins only after your commitment to the Institute, the spiritual life, and the apostolate (ideally, you live near one) is recognized by the priests. It is not too unlike other similar groups and the "third orders."
  • Canonical niceties don't matter when people don't care about the law;


    Are you attempting to describe the Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago, the Signatura, radicals in general, His Holiness, or someone else?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,134
    It's like a story I've heard about Richard Cardinal Cushing: He wanted to do something (I can't remember what) in a certain way; the Chancellor told him that he couldn't because it was contrary to Canon Law. Cushing said, "Show me." Msgr. Chancellor got the Code, showed him the paragraph. Cushing took the book, read it for a moment, walked to the window, opened it, threw the Code of Canon Law out the window (literally), and told the Chancellor, "We'll do it my way."

    Nothing has changed, except they now couch their clericalist despotism in words like "Synodality" and "Accompaniment" and "Dialogue", rather than in watered silk and ermine.
  • about the Institute of Christ the King in Chicago
    sorry if this is The Dumb Question for the Day, but i am not seeing it
    Was bCupich's decision officially stated on July 17? Maybe it was deferred?
    is there a text out there somewhere?

    At the Institute's website I see nothing, although it lists no events etc past July 31 ,
    and this in their 7/17 bulletin, which may or may not be related

    MASS INTENTIONS FOR 2022 NOW CLOSED
    We are now at the end of openings for public
    Masses, and can no longer take any public Mass
    intentions for 2022.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Madame,

    It's not a dumb question. I've not seen official notification at the Archdiocesan website or at the National Shrine' bulletin, but I, too, noticed what you've raised.

    Indeed, that could be the situation.



  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    There has been no announcement. Just pray. (Also, regarding my comment: the "people" = those in charge; even if Salieri's story is apocryphal, that's the spirit of what I was getting at.)
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,424
    Our online newsletter tells us,
    There is a significant backlog on the weekend Masses, especially for the 8 am & 11 am (EF) Latin.
    It is only around a month ago that we cleared the last of the Mass intensions for 2021!

    N.B. Our Masses this week...
    Saturday 16 July (Our Lady of Mount Carmel)
    8.30 am
    9.30 am (Latin)
    6 pm
    7.30 pm (Spanish)

    Sunday 17 July
    8 am
    9.30 am
    11 am (Latin)
    12.30 pm (Latin)
    6 pm

    Monday 18 July
    7 am (Latin)
    9 am
    12.15 pm (Latin)

    Tuesday 19 July
    7 am (Latin)
    9 am
    12.15 pm (Latin)

    Wednesday 20 July
    7 am (Latin)
    9.30 am
    12.15 pm (Latin)

    Thursday 21 July
    7 am (Latin)
    9 am
    12.15 pm (Latin)

    Friday 22 July (St Mary Magdalene)
    7 am (Latin)
    9 am
    12.15 pm (Latin)
    7 pm (English)

    Saturday 23 July (St Bridget)
    8.30 am
    9.30 am (Latin)
    6 pm
    7.30 pm (Spanish)
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 817
    I normally don’t get involved in breaking news discussions but surely there is someone on this list who goes to an IKCSP Mass and can find out?

    Kenneth
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,773
    No. Please, I'm basically begging everyone to let the canons announce it on their own. Fr Z, when asking for prayers, did not post the intention. Other people leaked what they thought was the news, letting it come piecemeal, before the canons could announce anything, and in fact, they had nothing to announce. If something comes to people in other apostolates, the canons will tell them but will expect them not to put it on social media, not publicly, not until it's been announced from the pulpit at the Shrine or any other apostolate affected.

    I think it's fine to share that the canons are signaling that the situation is very grave, that the bulletin note was about persecution, and that they want our prayers. It's not OK to want to be in the know and to get ahead of the canons in sharing the news unless you are a Shrine parishioner and are in the pews when Canon Talarico makes an announcement, or if they have to do it on social media.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,134
    Loose lips sink ships, as the saying goes.
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 488
    “Will no one rid us of this blogging priest….”

    /light purple
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • I'm not sure he wants to be murdered in his own cathedral.....