Whose fault is it that we use bad music and what can we do about it?
  • ServiamScores, your caveat is well-received. Mostly it does depend on the priest. Blessedly, the overall direction of the current and forthcoming generations of priest are quite amenable to full recovery of the Novus Ordo. At least in our Diocese.

    davido, I am not the best to counter your claims, except to say that I see it less as a return to the older form and more of these aspects of the old form never having been abrogated in the first place.

    Andrew_Malton, you are correct that a new priest could alter the situation drastically, but if that is what happens, then efforts would begin anew.

    Chris Garton-Zavesky, it's true as well that beauty is not often pursued. That said, I come form a seventh-day Adventist background, and the beauty I found in the Novus Ordo Mass was enough to convince me to convert, so I cannot for the life of me turn my back to it and say it is fundamentally unacceptable as worship of God.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,746
    you are correct that a new priest could alter the situation drastically, but if that is what happens, then efforts would begin anew.
    I've told my horror story elsewhere, but I once lurched from an Anglican convert priest who was dedicated to beautiful liturgies and chant to a refugee immigrant priest (who apparently had a very poor formation) who managed to destroy everything the previous pastor and I had built up almost overnight. I was then dismissed as I attempted to resign a short time later. It was so terribly, terribly sad. Still breaks my heart for those poor people who couldn't escape like I could.

    Now, once again, I enjoy a wonderful priest who is very serious about the liturgy and encourages Latin, traditional hymnody, and plainchant in all its forms (Latin/Vernacular/Florid/Simple). As a result, our masses tend toward the more august end of the spectrum for an otherwise small parish and we are "ahead of the curve" insofar as liturgical restoration is concerned. If he gets reassigned and his replacement is less friendly to this agenda, I'm not sure how long I'll last lol.
    Thanked by 2MichaelRaney Reval
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,170
    The Jubilate Deo booklet was not really well designed to fulfill Paul VI's wish to encourage the singing of chant, since its Sanctus and Agnus Dei are on the rather austere settings used in the funeral Mass, and its Kyrie from Mass XVI is equally spare. No wonder some people think of chant as a penitential practice to be followed in Lent only.

    The Liber Cantualis from Solesmes is a much broader and more appealing collection for chant beginners, as is Chants of the Church, available in a reprint edition from CMAA.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,746
    I always presumed he just chose the simpler chants since that was a more realistic expectation for all the lay faithful.
  • davido
    Posts: 889
    I think he fell into the same trap that ICEL fell into with the 2011 Missal Gloria. Music has to be interesting before people to want to sing it, and Gloria XV and the funeral ordinary just don't pass the interesting test.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,170
    Yes, Kyrie XI, for example, would be more attractive than XVI.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,697
    Our school and schola do very well with Kyrie xi
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 271
    My home parish had the same music director from the late '80s all the way until 2016. While he loved tradition, he embraced a lot of the "bad" Catholic music of the '70s/'80s and was very much of the "Chant and Latin are part of the 'pre-Vatican II' days and don't have a place in our liturgy anymore" mindset. Likewise, the mindset of many parishioners was the same. When his successor took over in 2016, she introduced the parish to some Latin and more traditional Mass settings and hymns, and while people scoffed at first, through repetition, they became accustomed to them and now sing them with gusto. It was not easy at first, and I think what happens is when the people reject something new at first, some MD's think, "Well, maybe we shouldn't do this" and then go back to the "bad" settings. I think persistence is a huge part of the equation.
  • vansensei
    Posts: 215
    Persistence and a willingness to sing the music of the Church. We can do so much better than this guitar tripe. There are centuries of beautiful music to fall back on, and not megachurch music with the occasional Catholic verbiage. I know people who sing the contemporary stuff, and a lot of them are very talented musicians. They deserve better, as do the congregation.
    Thanked by 2DavidOLGC LauraKaz
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 75
    " We can do so much better than this guitar tripe."

    Our previous pastor was a guitar player himself, and was happy to have me, a professional guitarist and bassist, join the music ministry. My personal opinion of much the guitar repertoire is a big "meh".

    Let's say I'm happier with our new pastor that has banished guitar from the English masses and much prefers organ.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,746
    I once had a priest offer me a job, but he insisted that I get involved with the aging folk group. I told him I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, because it was antithetical to traditional church music and the teachings of the church regarding liturgical praxis. He really pushed back and was offended by this point, but I finally said that I simply wouldn't be a part of it. "The only thing I could do to help that group is shut it down." We had to part ways.

    I had to chuckle later on when that priest told me the only way he was able to hire a different candidate of a similar skill level was to acquiesce and permit him to recuse himself from the situation. It seems I was not the only candidate who refused to participate in that type of music; I was merely the first. You can't force a square peg through a round hole.