Antiphon for the Canticles for the Office of Readings (Vigils)
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Blessed Lent everyone,

    As I do not have the OCO 2015, could someone supply me with the specification for the Antiphon for the Canticles for:

    in Hebdomada Sancta:
    Feria V
    Feria VI in Passione Domini
    Sabbato Sancto.

    Much appreciated in advance!
    Isaac.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 844
    Sure, here they are:

    Feria V, B: Desiderio desideravi (CAO 2161)
    Feria V in Cena Domini, M: Cenantibus autem (CAO 1781)

    Feria VI in Passione Domini, B: Posuerunt super caput (CAO 4343)
    Feria VI in Passione Domini, M: Sepulto Domino (CAO 4868)

    Sabbato Sancto, B: Salvator mundi salva nos (CAO 4690)
    Sabbato Sancto, M: Nunc clarificatus est (CAO 3974)
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    @smvanroode

    Sorry. Let me clarify. I am talking about the antiphon that pairs with the 3 Old Testament Canticles in what is called "Vigils" for those who want to extend the Office of Readings. In OCO 1983, the specification is on:

    Appendix I
    Antiphon Ad Cantica Vigiliarum = OL CANT

    Hope my question is clearer.
    Isaac.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 844
    Thanks for the clarification! Here are the antiphonae ad cantica vigiliarum:

    Feria VI in Passione Domini: Iesus clamans (CAO 3487)
    Sabbato Sancto: Dum tribularer (CAO 2474, AM 408)

    For Feria V, there's none given.
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Thanks.. the answer for Feria V would I think be the same for Tempus Quadragesimae...The older OCO 1983 had proposed one antiphon for all of Lent. If you don't mind and you find it on the OCO 2015, could you let me know?

    As for:
    Feria VI in Passione Domini: Iesus clamans (CAO 3487)
    I can't find this online, so I guess I'd have to use the OCO 1983 Adoramus the Christe instead.

    Regards,
    Isaac.
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Brilliant, I found Jesus clamans
    http://gregorianik.uni-regensburg.de/cdb/3487

  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    I've just updated antiphonale.net with the OL-antiphons for Lent and Easter tide. The codes for the antiphonae ad cantica follow a different scheme. So the antiphon for Good Friday is found under "09VSOlC" and for Holy Saturday under "10SSOlC" -- 09 resp. 10 are the positions in the list of such antiphons in the OCO, VS and SS probably mean "Venerdì Santo" and "Sabbato Santo" (Italian for Good Friday resp. Holy Saturday)
    Thanked by 2smvanroode IsaacTeng
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 844
    The older OCO 1983 had proposed one antiphon for all of Lent.


    The current OCO, additionally to Good Friday and Holy Saturday, only gives an antiphon for Sundays I through V (Cognoscimus Domine) and Palm Sunday (Positis autem).
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Thanks so much @smvanroode and @joerg
    Perhaps I should just get the OCO 2015 so I don’t need to keep bugging you both.

    Would both of you like to compose a book with all of these chants with the psalms? I could put them together in inDesign. Will take some time but for a good cause...An attempt to make a Les Heures Grégoriennes with Office of Readings.

    Let me know if you’re interested.

    Isaac.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 844
    Perhaps I should just get the OCO 2015 so I don’t need to keep bugging you both.

    If you frequently need to reference the current OCO, the latest editio typica is indeed a must have and a good investment! But don't be afraid bugging me, I'm happy to help anyone out.

    An attempt to make a Les Heures Grégoriennes with Office of Readings.

    That is a huge undertaking! Many questions arise. Do you mean an entire Antiphonale Romanum? Or just an edition with the Officium Lectionis? What about the sources? Are they to be critically reviewed? Then, with or without the readings, the invitatory? How about the responsories? Les heures gregoriennes is of course bi-lingual. Is that something you envision? What language? Consider that the vernacular editions of the LotH may have been adapted with readings of local saints. What is the target audience? Familiar with or new to the office, Gregorian chant? Is there demand for it? What is its intended use? Private recitation or communal prayer? To facilitate or to encourage the singing of the officium lectionis?

    There are many more. It's not my intention to discourage you. I'm quite happy to think along, but a good cause just isn't enough; a time consuming project like this needs to be thought through thoroughly on beforehand, boundaries set and feasibility evaluated.
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Hi. Over the years I have found that the Hour of Matins/Vigils has rarely been sung and even if it is in some Benedictine Monasteries (Schema A), it tends to be in recto tono unless there is a big feast. Very rare, anyhow.

    While we can all debate on the 'worthiness' of the Reform of the Roman Office, it has to be said that in theory, the Modern Roman Office is far more singable since it is much 'shorter'.

    This is where I find that unlike the other Hours, the Office of Readings has not been given 'adequate' attention as to its usefulness in adding solemnity to the daily office...Why the Invitatory Antiphon alone is 'glorious'.

    My idea is to have at least a 4 week psalter for the Office of Readings for Ferias and Memorias. No, I do not think the readings should go on it simply because it will make it too thick and in this age of mobile devices, that can easily be held in hand for reading / recto tono chanting if it is so desired.

    It will not have anything that can be found in the Liber Hymnarius. As for vernacular, since the English speaking world hasn't yet approved one translation to be used throughout (USA vs Commonwealth) for the Revised LoTH, I think it would be better to leave that out until later. So for now, just Latin.

    Basically, there is just nothing online in the form of a book for anyone who wants to sing the Office of Readings. There is also that nice addition for Vigils on Sundays and Feast Days where a Gospel Passage can be read (or sung)...bells and whistles.

    Isaac.



    Thanked by 1smvanroode
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Are they to be critically reviewed?


    As for this, no. I have 'modest' aims of just making something people can order a print edition on Lulu without clamouring for attention of it being an authoritative edition. So, yes, perhaps a very 'private' edition.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,382
    While we can all debate on the 'worthiness' of the Reform of the Roman Office, it has to be said that in theory, the Modern Roman Office is far more singable since it is much 'shorter'.


    on the other hand, the books don't exist, or they have taken so long to come out that people just went back to the older office; even certain monasteries of the English Benedictine Congregation frequently use the AM1934 for Vespers, taking another antiphon for Gospels that don't occur in the Sunday cycle. Some of that latter circumstance might be aesthetic and based on a dislike of the reform (though the reformed office has about the same amount of material for monks using a weekly psalter, which is the point in question), but in any case, the older office is also more singable because more recordings exist, which is how most people get into the sung office, whether or not they were aware of the office before finding recordings.

    I think this holds true even without Youtube; just look at the number of albums available from the pre-digital era of recording.
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    on the other hand, the books don't exist, or they have taken so long to come out that people just went back to the older office


    Very understandable...why work so hard when there are already enough materials for the old. I myself sing from the AM of 1934 as an Oblate in private. It is always easier to fall back on what we have done... until of course what is current is made very available and since 50 years have elapsed without an official version, perhaps those who can volunteer their services (critical edition or not) should, so that others can build on the shortcomings of that which will inevitably be superseded. Progress is quite simply built on the work of some who found that things hadn't been done quite completely enough before.

    I am not an expert in anyway, just that maybe some of the work done by joerg could be compiled in a booklet form for those who are interested.
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    I've produced such a modest private edition of an antiphoner for the upcoming Easter season (until Ascension). The TeX code was generated automatically from the codes on antiphonale.net, the chants on gregobase and a pdf version of the Liturgia Horarum which I have found some time ago on the internet (on a very respectable site, but meanwhile withdrawn). The line breaking and page breaking is horrible, the compile time is also horrible because the chants are downloaded from gregobase on the fly. The TeX-code is here, the pdf is here. This is part 2, part 1 contains the recurring pieces -- hymns and short responsories.
  • xmarteo
    Posts: 1
    Jörg, have you considered indexing those booklets that you produce so that people may find them without the need for knowing to search this forum?

    I thank you greatly for this work - even though I must admit you kind of cluttered gregobase with the last batch of additions and I have some clean-up to do :) (Fortunately O. B. has added a nice new "duplicate" function which allows soft deletion of the duplicates with redirection to the "true" entry).
  • Jehan_Boutte
    Posts: 173
    Many thanks joerg!
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 274
    Would both of you like to compose a book with all of these chants with the psalms? I could put them together in inDesign. Will take some time but for a good cause...An attempt to make a Les Heures Grégoriennes with Office of Readings.


    Are you aware of Fr. Joseph Sigur's Roman Antiphonal project (also mentioned here)?
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    There's another antiphonale for the Easter season here.
  • Marcel
    Posts: 13
    The musicated antiphons and psalms for the office of readings for each Sunday can also be found on the website of Calithes: www.calithes.it.
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    The antiphons on calithes.it are sometimes different from those of the OCO. E.g. the 3rd antiphon for the Easter tide is "Venit Maria nuntians discipulis quia vidi Dominum aeuia" whereas in the OCO it reads "Venit Maria nuntians discipulis quia surrexit Dominus aeuia" .
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 844
    The antiphons on calithes.it are sometimes different from those of the OCO.

    That's because calithes.it uses – if I'm not mistaken – the antiphons from Laus Divina of Frans Kok, which is a pre-2015 proposal for the revision of the 1983 OCO.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    Actually calithes.it is Frans Kok's domain.
    Thanked by 1IsaacTeng
  • Marcel
    Posts: 13
    Yes, Laus Divina has been published in 2010, five years before OCO2. But OCO2 publishes the preparatory schemes submitted to the Congr. of DWorship in 1992, 23 years before, without checking or taking in account the research done in those 23 years. This explains why the choice of antiphons of LD, at my opinion, is much improved compared to OCO2, notwithstanding LD has been published five years before. OCO2 was in fact already fully surpassed at the moment it was published. That's, I think, why it has a rubric, that the proposed antiphons are not obligatory, but can be substituted by better choises (in the case of Venit Maria, for ex., LD gives the antiphon of Hartker and almost all the other manuscripts, OCO2 a version which is only present in a Beneventan manuscript; see CAO). We are waiting OCO3!
    Thanked by 2joerg IsaacTeng
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    Since in some parts of the world tomorrow is Ascension Thursday here's an update to my antiphoner for the Paschal season: DeTemporePaschali. It includes the offices for the entire season (except Compline). Furthermore I have enhanced usability by adding links within the pdf for jumping to the recurring parts (hymns and responsories) and a clickable table of contents.
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Hi there,

    Thanks for the good work you do joerg. So..in my spare time I've been compiling all your antiphons on gregobase into a booklet using Adobe inDesign...just the antiphons...so that my friends and I who can't afford LHG each and don't mind having the antiphon on one booklet and a Kindle on the other can sing in this 'temporary' way. I can send you a copy if you wish...but I have some questions as to where these are from, since they differ from the OCO 2015 spec.

    All in the Office of Readings

    Week 1 Saturday Ant 2 (Ex Temp PA) In vinculis non dereliquit.
    Week 2 Saturday Ant 2 (Ex Temp PA) Temptaverunt me patres vestri
    Week 2 Saturday Ant 3 (Ex Temp PA) Visita et libera plebem tuam
    Week 4 Friday Ant 2 (Ex Temp PA) Angelorum esca
    Week 4 Friday Ant 3 (Ex Temp PA) Domine adiutor meus
    Week 4 Saturday Ant 1 (Ex Temp PA) Redemit eos Dominus

    Thanks for the reply in advance.
    Isaac
  • joerg
    Posts: 112
    The antiphons given in the OCO for these positions are all marked "Sol". So they are not original Gregorian pieces but free compositions by the monks of Solesmes. These melodies haven't been published so far, so for the time being they remain unknown. Frans Kok in his "Laus divina" gives classical antiphons instead with texts similar to the OCO texts. These are the ones that I have used. If you want to strictly follow the OCO you may of course compose your own melodies which will probably not be any worse than the Solesmensian ones.
    Thanked by 1IsaacTeng
  • IsaacTeng
    Posts: 28
    Dear Joerg,

    Thanks for the explanation. Now I know where they are from. Once again, thanks for all the work you have done!

    Regards
    Isaac.