NOH Volume V in LilyPond
  • Andrew Hinkley
    Posts: 59
    I've finished typesetting volume V of the NOH into LilyPond. At some stage I'll upload it to GitHub to be merged into the existing project there. If there's sufficient interest I'll proofread and upload volumes 1-4 as well. (They're mostly transcribed.)

    I had hopes that the LilyPond version could be used as a basis for a retypeset edition (copyright permitting) or even individual propers booklets, though the technical difficulties I've encountered have sunk that idea unless someone more knowledgeable can improve on my work.

    Anyway, I finished volume V in the hopes that it would be useful. I'm not a musician so my apologies for errors you find in there (proofreading Chant is much easier for me than modern notation), so any proofreading is very much appreciated.


    PDFs:
    Zip file available here .
    Tarball available here .

    LilyPond:
    Zip file available here .
    Tarball available here .
    Thanked by 6CHGiffen CatholicOrganist Juan Andrés francis Lars GregoryWeber
  • davido
    Posts: 943
    Andrew, I look forward to taking a look at this when time allows! Great project
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Wow... can I get the whole thing in one zip file?
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    I've been thinking of transcribing these into Finale, but not enough time to do so.
    Is there anyway to import this into Finale? I would love to be able to edit and transpose these, but I'm not familiar with working in Lilypond format.

    I did find one typo in Credo III: the accidental on the Amen.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    What is NOH?
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    Nova Organi Harmonia, a collection of chant accompaniments.
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Tried to get PDF zip bot doesn’t let me download
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    I would like to edit also in sib. Is there a way to convert?
  • davido
    Posts: 943
    No, lilypond does not port into graphical notation programs like finale or sibelius. It also only barely works with musicxml.
  • davido
    Posts: 943
    Andrew, in your .ly files, do you need to include "gregorian.ly"? gregorian.ly includes the lilypond square note notation, but I don't see that you are using anything from that font except the gregorian barlines.
    But since you redefine the gregorian bar lines in noh.ily, I don't think you need gregorian.ly and I think that it actually is what is causing the uneven spacing in melismas.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Lilypond will export a midi file, with dynamics. Does that help?
    Thanked by 1francis
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Perhaps. It depends how it is setup and how Finale interprets the data upon import. I have imported from MIDI before from CPDL. Sometimes it works well, other times it's easier to just start over rather than having to edit so much. But it's worth a shot.

    I'm not entirely happy with Finale, especially the lyrics tool, but it's what I know and I don't really have the desire to learn something from scratch.

    Even so, the newly engraved Lilypond files are much easier on the eyes than the scanned versions of NOH. So I'd be happy to collect the PDF's as they become available.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    OK... got the zip of pdf files.. this is GREAT! Thanks.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Hinkley
  • Andrew Hinkley
    Posts: 59
    The reason I included gregorian.ly was the quilisma. The existing project on GitHub places a quilisma above the note, which is what I've done so far, but the original replaces the notehead with a quilisma. I noticed that gregorian.ly adds the quilisma command which at some stage I might do a search and replace over all my lilypond files.

    I should probably just add the relevant code to the noh.ily file instead of adding the entire gregorian.ly.
    Thanked by 1fernandogil
  • Andrew Hinkley
    Posts: 59
    The lack of export features in LilyPond felt like a torpedo to my project. :( My work would be that much more useful if it could easily be imported to Finale/Sibelius/etc. Using LilyPond makes note entry that much easier for me (the melodies were converted from Gregorio via Python script) but it's a real let down when it can't easily convert to formats other than MIDI.
  • davido
    Posts: 943
    Yes, just create a bid of code that replaces a note head with the symbol for the quilisma. Hen you can eliminate Gregorian.ly and I think you will be very pleased with the resulting layout changes.
    I was advised by the Lilypond email forum years ago that Gregorian.lay was the source of similar formatting problems.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Hinkley
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    This is an excellent project. Firstly a question, then a suggestion...

    Is it the intention of the authors that the organist double the melody in accompanying, or only play the lower voices?

    Might it be possible (given how widespread the use of the Solesmes method is), to take this opportunity to make in all the epesimas etc in the edition, or release one version that has these marked?
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Bumping for someone wanting to transpose NOH.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    I would truly love to get some kind of file that can import into Sib. Can we try one movement perhaps?
  • dboothe
    Posts: 31
    A few years ago, I tried to convert a choral anthem I'd done in Lilypond to Finale by going through MusicXML. Might have tried Sibelius, too. Can't recall.

    After many failed attempts, I gave up. That was modern notation only. I suspect adding in gregorian elements would make it even harder and I doubt the situation has improved since then. That sort of thing does not seem to be a priority for the Lilypond developers.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    can someone send me a .ly file (modern notation only) that has been exported to musicxml? I would like to see first hand how it parses in Sib.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    I starting engraving some NOH into Finale from scratch. Very time consuming. I have not aspiration to do a complete set or even volume, but I would like a few of the Mass Ordinaries that I use most often so that I can transpose them into the desired keys rather than using the auto transposer on the organ.

    The melody is easy enough to do, but since Finale is based on meter, what would the best method be for writing the harmony voices that don't correspond to the "invisible meter"? I've tried using both invisible rests and notes, which sort of works, but I'm then unable to tie the common pitches over the invisible note or rest. I could use a slur marking to sub as a tie, but is there a better way? The other option would be to simply fill in the extra "beats" with the same pitch, but I'm trying to keep the visual the same as the original. Any other ideas from Finale users?
  • Nathan_the_Organist
    Posts: 440
    Earl _Grey, while I'm no expert at Finale, I have set chant accompaniments before. Using a slur over an invisible note is the best way I know. If someone else has a better way, I would also be very interested in hearing it.
    Thanked by 1Earl_Grey
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,890
    Fwiw, this is very easy in Dorico, since you can hide any rest, and there’s an option to select all notes and make them stemless in about two clicks. Consequently, you can use “wrong” note values in the same style of NOH very easily and quickly.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    It's not difficult at all in Finale if you use Tuplets. You can show nothing for the "number" and for the tuplet "bracket" (these can be selected for the whole document in the Document Options). Also, selecting stemless notation is easy. And, finally, using the Tuplet Definition dialog box, you can assign any number of, say quarter notes, to a whole note. In the accompaniment, then you have no invisible rests or notes to worry about if you want to tie notes.
    Thanked by 2Nathan_the_Organist Earl_Grey
  • Nathan_the_Organist
    Posts: 440
    Thank you, Charles. I'm going to bookmark this thread for next time I need to do this.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    Thanks. @CHGiffen I hadn't considered that option, but that makes the most sense.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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