Does anyone have the Chant Propers for the Feast of Our Lady of Częstochowa?
  • GregoriusGregorius
    Posts: 18
    The feast was yesterday (August 26) but by any chance does anyone have the chant Propers for the Feast of Our Lady of Częstochowa? Also Our Lady Queen of Poland (May 3)? Or maybe theses Propers were never set to chant?

    This is the list of the Propers:

    AUGUST 26 – Our Lady of Częstochowa
    Introit: Fundamenta eius in montibus sanctis
    Gradual: Porta caeli et stella maris es
    Alleluia: Ave, gratia plena
    Offertoirum: Circumdate Sion
    Communio: Gloriosa dicta sunt de te, civitas Dei

    MAY 3 – Our Lady Queen of Poland
    Introit: Præposuit eam Dominus
    (Gradual: Astitit regina)
    Alleluia I: Tota formosa et suavis es
    Alleluia II: Benedixit te Dominus
    Offertorium: Recordare, Virgo Mater
    Communio: Regina mundi dignissima


    Gregory
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 997
    Hi Gregory,

    Where do these chant assignments come from (or at least the texts)? If they are to be chant propers, they should refer to existing chants from the Gregorian repertoire.

    Only the offertory for Our Lady, Queen of Poland can be found in the Graduale (Recordare, Virgo Mater, GR 422), as well as the alleluia for Our Lady of Częstochowa (Ave Maria, gratia plena, GR 412).

    I'm very curious where these assignments have been published. Are they put out by the bishops conference of Poland (as they are local feasts)? Have they been published in Notitiae?
  • GregoriusGregorius
    Posts: 18
    Unfortunately I am not sure of the history of these Mass texts but I think they are early 20th century (around the time of Pope Pius X). At least these are the texts found in the Polish supplement for the EF Missal circa 1960.

    In regards to the Alleluia you mentioned, the text is Ave gratia plena not Ave Maria gratia plena (although I have used that Alleluia you mentioned dropping out the word Maria).

    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    The problem we still have is we don't have a complete list of the Propers used in the EF, we have a large number of supplements but no general index... We need to find a book with the Polish supplement.

    Have found the following, so far... (hopefully the texts are the same, as some Propers have variants of the text!)

    Offertorium: Recordare, Virgo Mater
    Communio: Regina mundi dignissima
    here,
    Alleluia II: Benedixit te Dominus is in the Graduale Romano Seraphicum Pg (93)

    Communio: Gloriosa dicta sunt appears to be in the Cist. Graduale pg. 501. Although the Dominicans also have this but the text is different after (de te...)
    Thanked by 2JonathanKK Gregorius
  • francis
    Posts: 10,818
    have you looked at gregobase?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @francis
    I quickly looked through Gregobase, and the Synopticum after looking through various scans of books containing supplements! I am beginning to think I need to sit down and add all those Propers to Gregobase.

    If I get time I will continue the search...
  • GregoriusGregorius
    Posts: 18
    Thanks Tom.

    For the past 20 years or so I've been looking for a supplement with the music for the Polish local feasts. I can easily find the inserts for the Roman Missal (and breviary) but no inserts with music for the Roman Gradual or Liber Usualis. It just seems odd that these two feasts are 1st class feasts in all dioceses of Poland yet there is no music for them.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Not that strange, if you consider that most High Masses in Poland, in Parishes, Cathedrals, etc., were of the Singmesse variety: Vernacular hymns at the Introit, Epistle/Gradual, Offertory, Elevation and Communion, with a Latin Ordinary setting. Chant supplements would really only be needed in Monastic establishments that chanted the Mass in its entirety. The Polish hierarchy was too conservative to follow liberals like Pius X and corrupting documents like Tra le sollicitudine.

    I remember writing to someone in Poland about this--I work in a Polish parish in the USA--and the reply was that the Liber Usualis was never used except in monasteries or a few places where the Rector was willing to risk the ire of the Old Ladies by replacing Serdeczna Matko with Salve Sancta Parens on Jan 1, and fell into complete disuse after Vatican II.

    My suggestion is to try contacting a Benedictine Monastery (or even Solesmes itslef)--there might be an archival Liber with the supplement in their library.
    Thanked by 1CatherineS
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    FWIW: for the Solemnity of my Parish's Titular Feast (O.L. Czestochowa), I used (in English, OF):

    IN: Gaudeamus...solemnitate (after Bartlett, SEP)
    OF: Felix namque (Weber, Propers)
    CO: Omnes generationes (Weber, Propers)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Ralph Bednarz
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Oh look at this... although it is not the Introit! http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Fundamenta_ejus_(Giovanni_Pierluigi_da_Palestrina)

  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    There is a reference to a concert performance on Sunday Sep 6th 2015 here. I gather it was by Schola Gregoriana Sancti Casimiri / Białystok, if there is some way of contacting them.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,086
    I checked Graduals from 1910 and 1911 at polona.pl, and no luck.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,467
    Salieri - I get the impression from wikipedia that these texts were approved after lobbying from the monastery of Jasna Gora, in the 1930s. Has anyone tried asking them?
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Quick
  • GregoriusGregorius
    Posts: 18
    a_f_hawkins - Thanks for the reference to the concert. I've just written to the Schola Gregoriana Sancti Casimiri, when I get a response I'll let you know.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen tomjaw a_f_hawkins
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    @Gregorius
    I see someone has been busy Proprium Poloniae

    AUGUST 26 – Our Lady of Częstochowa
    Introit: Fundamenta eius in montibus sanctis
    Gradual: Porta caeli et stella maris es (See below)
    Alleluia: Ave, gratia plena (See below)
    Offertoirum: Circumdate Sion (See below)
    Communio: Gloriosa dicta sunt de te, civitas Dei

    MAY 3 – Our Lady Queen of Poland
    Introit: Præposuit eam Dominus
    (Gradual: Astitit regina)
    Alleluia I: Tota formosa et suavis es
    Alleluia II: Benedixit te Dominus
    Offertorium: Recordare, Virgo Mater
    Communio: Regina mundi dignissima

    Bold pieces are still missing...
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    I have found this, https://grego.cormundum.pl/media/BMV_ReginaePoloniae.pdf
    and this,
    https://liturgia.bydgoszcz.pl/news/swieto-matki-bozej-czestochowskiej-2018/
    and
    Offertory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlKLwuIhHWY
    Alleluia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mCM2VU6zWA
    https://seminarium.paulini.pl/powolanie/

    Gradual is also found in Missae pro aliquibus locis (B. Mariae Virg. Reginae Apostolorum)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Josaphat1934
    Posts: 9
    Hello,

    I was very glad to see this posted on FB just in time for the Feast.
    https://www.facebook.com/100065485183057/posts/pfbid0yfSLpMHShsZLTSz9Edz9rafJtw4AtRxCfHkrFPrivA7wDCNGK1vtyR5V29eTPyVFl/?app=fbl

    Daniel
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth tomjaw
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