Our National Anthem (SATB Hymn) : Tribute to Freedom : Do Not Let It Die
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    I am composing SATB arrangements for a hymnal/music booklet, and this is my new arrangement for the National Anthem.

    As I was composing this piece, I had a sense of loss and dread that we are losing our America, our Constitution and our Freedom. Therefore, as a tribute and to rouse you to your senses, I posted my recording here.

    Don't Let Freedom Die.

    O! say can you see by the dawn’s early light
    What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
    O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
    O! say does that star spangled banner still wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
    Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
    In full glory reflected, now shines in the stream.
    ’Tis the spar spangled banner, O! long may it wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    And where is that band which so vauntingly swore,
    ’Mid the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
    A home and a country, shall leave us no more?
    Their blood has washed out their foul footstep’s pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave.
    And the star spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O! thus be it ever when freeman shall stand,
    Between their loved home and the war’s desolation;
    Blest with victory and peace, may the Heav’n rescued land,
    Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto, In God is our trust.
    And the star spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    When our land is illumed with liberty’s smile,
    If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
    Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
    The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
    By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
    We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
    And the star spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    While the land of the free is the home of the brave.
    nationalAnthem.pdf
    71K
    nationalAnthem - 8:12:20, 3.51 PM.mp3
    5M
    Thanked by 2Earl_Grey CCooze
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    I’ve never heard that 5th verse. Is that Francis Scott Key?
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Eighteen years after Key's death, and in indignation over the start of the American Civil War, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. added a fifth stanza to the song in 1861, which appeared in songbooks of the era.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    It is interesting to compare the language of the 5th verse to the others. It's not quite as archaic and poetic sounding but still fine. I am struck by the emphasis on bravery which seems to be in short supply these days.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,890
    If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
    Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
    The flag of her stars and the page of her story!


    Yes, yes, and more yes. I will refrain from defining who these miscreants are as you can no doubt do the math yourselves. Seems the 5th verse is more timely than ever.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Why is this political material allowed on this forum? As I've been reminded many times, this is a forum dedicated to issues related to sacred music. The national anthem does not qualify for many reasons apart from its dreadful music attributes. As for comments referring to miscreants, I would be one of those miscreants, I am sure, according to ServiamScores and others - does this mean I don't belong on this forum? In the field of sacred music? Are you sure you all want to be labeling fellow members as miscreants? Make this political thread go away, please.
  • Francis has a brilliant mind and is a stalwart of this group.

    He has the distinction of being the only modern-day composer and writer of a hymn to be included in the prestigious St. Michael Hymnal, which is the most popular and well-received hymnal of enlightened parishes based on sales.

    It is a hymn. It's not a Catholic hymn, though many Catholics sing it - even those that DO NOT Sing at Mass. There is a lot of discussion about non-Catholic hymns in the archives. Let this be in the archives as well.

    Let Francis Speak Freely.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    jpnz71 - as an Englishman (and thus the enemy in the original verses) I see nothing rebarbative either in the anthemn, or in the preceding comments. The temptation to poltical invective has so far been avoided.
    The accursed power which stands on privilege
    (and goes with women, champagne and bridge)
    Broke - and democracy resumed her reign
    (which goes with bridge and women and champagne)
    Belloc
    Thanked by 2CCooze CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The original (not Francis's arrangement) is terrible (functionally) as a national anthem. But Holmes Sr. definitely improved it, and it can have other uses - it's only been the national anthem for 89 years.

    Speaking of which, the original did prompt this in a memorable line of theatre from over 25 years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiLsviN7vI
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    From the Smithsonian Magazine -
    The seeming contradictions between Jefferson’s slaveholding history, deeply racist personal views, his support of the institution in his political life, and his assertion of human rights in the Declaration, in many ways parallel Key's story.

    In 1814, Key was a slaveholding lawyer from an old Maryland plantation family, who thanks to a system of human bondage had grown rich and powerful.

    When he wrote the poem that would, in 1931, become the national anthem and proclaim our nation “the land of the free,” like Jefferson, Key not only profited from slaves, he harbored racist conceptions of American citizenship and human potential. Africans in America, he said, were: “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community...Ironically, while Key was composing the line "O'er the land of the free," it is likely that black slaves were trying to reach British ships in Baltimore Harbor. They knew that they were far more likely to find freedom and liberty under the Union Jack than they were under the “Star-Spangled Banner.”

    Additionally, Key used his office as the District Attorney for the City of Washington from 1833 to 1840 to defend slavery, attacking the abolitionist movement in several high-profile cases.”


    The star spangled banner is not a hymn, it is a politcal anthem, written by a slave owner who held despicable views on African-Americans and slavery. Yes, you may be free to speak freely about this anthem, but make sure to be informed as well.
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    Is the black lives matter rant over now? We fought a civil war over this: abolitionists won. We fought the KKK over this, and the Klan lost. A black man ran for president: and he won!
    None of which would have been possible without the seed of liberty planted and watered by the founding fathers. American may be always growing into her creed, but let’s not tear it down because fallible men created it. No one is perfect - as I remember, even the first pope betrayed Christ.
    Thanked by 3WGS a_f_hawkins francis
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Is the black lives matter rant over now?
    My comment was no rant, but a historically informed observation on the nature of the man who wrote the national anthem. His words and deeds are relevant. Anybody going to be programing or singing David Haas hymns anytime soon? Of course nobody is perfect, but when someone through their words or deeds contributes to gross injustice and evil, their work should not be venerated or elevated to the level of a hymn sung in a Catholic Church, or national anthem sung everywhere. As I said, go ahead and speak freely about the national anthem, sing it even, if you must, stand for it, salute it etc., etc., - just be informed about what it is exactly you are singing, standing and saluting for. As for me and my house, in the words of Jackie Robinson, "I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world.” I am not a black man, but I agree with him. This country will not fulfill its promise until casual racism and explicit racism are eradicated from everyplace, including this forum, and from all parts of our culture, including the national anthem that is as rotten to the core as its author.
    Thanked by 1JL
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Jpnz71, we are standing and saluting for the words and images invoked by such - not for the person who wrote them, nor even for whatever dirty thoughts may have ever entered his mind.

    Have you heard of St. Augustine?
    Goodness knows he isn't known for his misdeeds and early lifestyle, but for what he managed to do and to become in spite of them.

    "As for me and my house..." we will not misuse scripture.
    Good grief.

    I see strong black men standing, saluting, crying during the National Anthem, many, many times per year.

    But only the naysayers' opinions matter?

    What if one becomes angry with God? Feels... oppressed by His commandments? By His requirement of forgiving others if we wish to also be forgiven in kind (Our Father)? Of asking for forgiveness more than just in one's private reflection but audibly, and in front of a witness (Penance)!? Of believing that we are truly partaking of His ACTUAL Body & Blood, in order to gain eternal salvation?
    Then what? Do we say, "it's not your fault! You're right. It doesn't matter that ALL people have had to get over their pride and follow Christ. It's different for you. It shouldn't be that way, for you."

    Nay.
    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
    Not just "praise." Not just "sing songs." Not just "glorify."
    "Serve."
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    David the King killed Uriah the Hittite, and yet the psalms are the music of all of Judeo-Christian history. The gross injustice argument doesn’t hold water for Haas, Key, or King David.
    Thanked by 2JonathanKK francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    Oooooooookkkkkaaaaaasy... just sharing OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM... If there’s a problem with the words in your purview, you might wanna move to another country where ‘freedom may not ring’ and people are quiet and reserved about their belief in upholding the same in the face of tyranny.

    As for me, I am an American and I will do as many Americans have done to preserve it.

    As for separating the state from God, (or on this forum patriotism from faith) it cannot be done without the fall of an empire. Christus Vincit... king of both church and state. So the state better wake up before it’s too late to find any decent semblance of civilization left to defend.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    What @davido is saying. This is articulated by Chesterton in The Ballad of the White Horse, where Alfred says:


    "...it is only Christian men / Guard even heathen things,"

  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    Also, the story that I am reminded of, from The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom:

    It was Sunday, May 10, 1942, exactly two years after the fall of Holland...

    ...The latest heartache for Dutchmen was an edict making it a crime to sing the "Wilhelmus," our national anthem.

    Father, Betsie and I were on our way to the Dutch Reformed church in Velsen, a small town not far from Haarlem, where Peter had won the post of organist in competition against forty older and more experienced musicians. The organ at Velsen was one of the finest in the country; though the train seemed slower each time, we went frequently.

    Peter was already playing, invisible in the tall organ loft, when we squeezed into the crowded pew. That was one thing the occupation had done for Holland: the churches were packed.

    (...)

    The closing prayers were said. And then electrically, the whole church sat at attention. Without preamble, every stop pulled out to full volume, Peter was playing the "Wilhelmus"!

    Father, at eighty-two, was the first one on his feet. Now everyone was standing. From somewhere in back of us a voice sang out the words. Another joined in, and another. Then we were all singing together, the full voice of Holland singing her forbidden anthem. We sang at the top of our lungs, sang our oneness, our hope, our love for Queen and country. On this anniversary of defeat it seemed almost for a moment that we were victors.

    Afterwards...

    But now that the moment had passed I was, as usual, angry with him. The Gestapo was certain to hear about it, perhaps already had: their eyes and ears were everywhere. (...) And for what had Peter risked so much? Not for people's lives but for a gesture. For a moment's meaningless defiance.

    (...)

    ...It was Wednesday morning just as Father and I were unlocking our workbenches that Peter's little sister Cocky burst into the shop.

    "Opa! Tante Corrie! They came for Peter! They took him away!"

    "Who? Where?"

    But she didn't know and it was three days before the family learned that he had been taken to the federal prison in Amsterdam.



    Because of that story, I was always glad that The Star Spangled Banner was included in the Collegeville Hymnal that we had, just in case.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Anybody who thinks the USA is a Christian nation or a nation worthy of blind, unquestioning patriotism is either confused about Christianity or patriotism or both.
    As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    - John Adams
    Patriotism, as exemplified by Dr. King, thinks evaluatively about one’s country in light of its best values, including the attempt to correct it when it’s in error and fix it when it is broken. Yet especially on our national patriotic holidays, too often our churches promote nationalism—the uncritical support of one’s nation regardless of its moral, truthful or political bearing.
    - John Zehring

    The national anthem is one example, of many, many of parts of the fabric of this country that should be evaluated, criticized, and retired to a museum or historical books. It neither reflects the best of this country nor Christianity. In addition, as a secular political anthem, it should not be associated with Christianity any more than it should be associated with with Islam, Judaism or any other world religion.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    As for separating the state from God, (or on this forum patriotism from faith) it cannot be done without the fall of an empire. Christus Vincit... king of both church and state. So the state better wake up before it’s too late to find any decent semblance of civilization left to defend.
    - see above comment for author

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. Enquire of the Teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect, point to the ages prior to its incorporation with Civil policy.
    - James Madison



  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Jpnz71, we are standing and saluting for the words and images invoked by such - not for the person who wrote them, nor even for whatever dirty thoughts may have ever entered his mind.


    Ideas that support slavery, or the inferiority of certain races, do not qualify as dirty thoughts. They are evil thoughts. Slavery in the United States was genocide. Those who support genocide with thoughts, words or deeds are not worthy of veneration. Don't invoke St. Augustine with this one unless you are prepared to offer your forgiveness to other other historical figures who committed genocide against whoever the inferior race or people were to them. Francis Key was on the wrong side of the genocide issue. You still want to sing his song?
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    jpnz, though I am not American and have no stake in this discussion, I'm curious why you only ever jump in on the political threads you seem to decry. You've only posted so far on threads concerning COVID-19 or race relations in the States, and have not a single post on the myriad of threads specifically discussing Catholic sacred music. At the risk of not assuming good faith, are you interested in actually discussing with us on this forum or are you merely here to talk down to us and kick the hornet's nest?
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CCooze
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    I would like nothing more than for the music values and aspirations of CMAA to be the standard in as many Catholic parishes and dioceses as possible. As I've said before, I do not believe this will happen until those who express troubling ideas, willfully or carelessly, on this forum or anywhere else, stop expressing these things. I know, I know, freedom of speech. How widely are the music values and aspirations of CMAA supported and maintained in Catholic parishes and dioceses? If there was a flourishing of chant and polyphony in the U.S. Catholic Church you might be right about my comments. But until there is such a flourishing, you might want to consider what I am trying to say. Stop trafficking in ignorance, casual racism, conspiracy theories, raw-raw nationalism (aka implicit white supremacy.) If you don't traffic in these things, encourage those who do to stop. Then you might actually see CMAA and its music values and aspirations gain some real traction. This forum should have nothing on it but threads laser focused on sacred music and liturgy - anything else is a distraction at best, and a roadblock hindering CMAAs reputation and mission at worst.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    This is not just theoretical to me. I was recently given an advisory role in selecting candidates for a music director position in a beautiful Catholic church with a beautiful pipe organ and a beautiful choral tradition. I reviewed all resumes and cover letters and then made recommendations to the hiring committee about who to interview and who not to interview. I knew one candidate from some comments on this forum. I did not recommend them for an interview. One thing I've learned for sure in my career - never mix politics with my music. No one I work for or with knows what I think about this or that candidate, this or that hot political issue, or anything related to politics at all. I have been a long time follower of this forum. I share the music values of many, but am beyond frustrated by many of the things posted here because I think they are a symptom of a lack of focus that holds CMAA back, and thus throttles the kind of developments in sacred music I would like to see happen. I know from conversations with pastors and others that CMAA does not have a good reputation. Until you have a good reputation on a wide scale, and until the values and mission you support gain wide traction, why on earth would you allow politics and all the poison conversation about politics brings to deflect from your mission. Clean up your act, CMAA members and supporters. Focus on what you want to achieve in sacred music and liturgy. Shut up about everything else. You can still believe what you want to believe politically or about the pandemic or about the national anthem - just keep it to yourselves, or talk about it at the local pub with your like minded pals. Anything you share publicly hurts all that you want to achieve musically, maybe not in big, earth-shaking blows, but death, or irrelevance, by a thousand cuts.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    Here's the rub: Attacks on works of art because of moral problems with the life of the creator are a threat to... most works of art.

    By their fruits you shall know them. Angelic beings are purely good (angels), or purely evil (demons). Men however are not angels, and while they are on this earth their lives are a mixture of good actions and evil actions. Good art is not created by a person's evil actions, rather it is the fruit of their good actions. Even great sinners may produce great art: in their better moments.

    The words of The Star Spangled Banner are not tainted with the racism of which you accuse their author. As for the dignity of the tune, it has acquired that: witness a performance by a good band, or the piano arrangement of Rachmaninoff, with which he used to open his concerts in the U.S.

    It is a desirable characteristic of a national anthem that it not be changed according to the whim of a particular day and age. In secular things the same applies as in sacred, "What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful." By this principle, even if all you dream of should come to pass, and a new, more worthy national anthem be selected by an official act, yet would The Star Spangled Banner retain its dignity as a former national anthem, unsullied.

    The reasoning by which you condemn the national anthem would condemn much of the world's artistic heritage. We are here as musicians to keep it alive.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Here's the rub: Attacks on works of art because of moral problems with the life of the creator are a threat to... most works of art.


    No. There are moral failings, and then there is slavery/genocide. The fact that you and many Americans seem to have trouble differentiating between the two is an indication of the thickness of the blinders so many Americans wear in regards to America's original sin. Changing the national anthem because its author was a slave owner who believed people from Africa were inferior to Europeans because their skin was darker would not be change on a whim. It would be change that reflected the removal of blinders - change that was justified and change that could be a part of the healing this nation so desperately needs.

    By this principle, even if all you dream of should come to pass, and a new, more worthy national anthem be selected by an official act, yet would The Star Spangled Banner retain its dignity as a former national anthem, unsullied.

    The reasoning by which you condemn the national anthem would condemn much of the world's artistic heritage. We are here as musicians to keep it alive.


    Wrong. Wrong. Works created by people who support and participate in evil are inherently sullied, forever. Put these works in a museum or record them in books. Learn from them. But relegate them to irrelevance so that artists, authors or musicians tempted to follow similar paths in the future don't lest their work also be relegated to irrelevance. We are not here as musicians to keep the works of slave owners/genocide supporters alive. We are here as humans and Christians to do better, and among other things, to make sure we not allow slavery/genocide to ever happen again, and to make sure we do all we can to heal those whose lives have suffered due to the legacy of slavery and genocide.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    Indeed, appearances are that someone is less interested in promoting music values than in a five minute argument. If that's the case, perhaps it would be more seemly to pick a fight over accompanied chant, or go for the full course of ten quilisma wars. But for myself I assume the folks who wear 'deplorable' as a badge of honor will be much more discomcerted by learning how much they have in common with a Black Lives Matter marcher.

    Anyway,
    Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
    sounds more like a Never Trump anthem. 1861 is long before statues of confederates went up, up, but it is poignant that Holmes Sr. (1809 – 1894) lived to see reconstruction ruined.

    O dear: here comes the lumberjack song.
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    Indeed, appearances are that someone is less interested in promoting music values than in a five minute argument.


    No. Read what I previously posted. In the real world, I just promoted music values by making sure I selected the best candidates for a music director position, candidates fluent in chant and polyphony, academically and pastorally qualified, none of whom belonged to or were associated with this forum or CMAA, and none of whom, as far as I could tell through my online vetting, had ever posted conspiracy theories, anti-science screeds, political posts favoring the work of former slave owners, or boasted of being deplorable. That is not a five minute argument. That is doing my best in my sphere to promote real world sacred music values.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Online vetting, obvious bias against people on this forum... most of whom are only here because of their love of the Catholic Church and of sacred music. You come here specifically to tell the people here how much disdain you have for them. I think we all read it, just fine.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I can just imagine the call coming in: "Hi, JP: we've got a music director job to fill at St. Glossolalia's Parish. Can you recommend some people who might fit it well? Of course, we'd want you to exclude anyone who likes the national anthem, votes for Orange Man, or wants the schools to re-open in September."

    Anyway, we've heard enough of that unconstructive stuff. Click.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    Just stumbled on this a few minutes ago and thought it fitting for online vetting standards:

    My mind drifts to a scene by Anthony Esolen in his book, Life Under Compulsion:

    Imagine a new father looking into the eyes of his child. A wisp of blond hair curls about the baby’s scalp. The fingers, wrinkled like those of an old man, curl about his own finger. The child has blue eyes, but who knows whether they will stay that way? There’s the slightest indentation in the chin, reflecting that of his wife, who cradles the baby in her arms and hums gently to him.

    “Here is one,” says the father, “who will be a productive member of the labor force, and who will assist in the increase of the Gross Domestic Product.”

    “Here is one,” says the mother, “who will be adept at the processing of information, so to facilitate the attainment of a successful career.”

    “Here is one,” says the father, “who will possess the capacity to embark upon independent research, who will present arguments that balance claim and counterclaim.”

    “Here is one,” says the mother, “who will meet the Common Core Requirement anchor standards and high school grade-specific standards, which work in tandem to define college and career-readiness expectations” (pp. 54-55).
  • jpnz71
    Posts: 65
    I can just imagine the call coming in: "Hi, JP: we've got a music director job to fill at St. Glossolalia's Parish. Can you recommend some people who might fit it well? Of course, we'd want you to exclude anyone who likes the national anthem, votes for Orange Man, or wants the schools to re-open in September."


    I was asked to select candidates who, to the best of my knowledge, and through review of applicants materials and online presence, were not ideologues politically or musically. There is a reason why during my time in the military we were not allowed to discuss politics in office settings - it is just too divisive. Same in church settings. Same in CMAA and on this forum.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    Hm. So just being associated with the CMAA disqualifies a person. You don't know that a person who happens to have an account here (or is just a member) has views which would make him unacceptable for a job. You just admitted you will eliminate a whole group of people based upon a few posts by a few people. If anyone is showing political bias, it is the person who did that.

    Also, you claim that you want to spread the musical ideals of the CMAA, but you won't even give a member a chance at a job position. Based on that, I don't believe you have any intention of furthering the musical goals of CMAA. Anytime you say such, it would appear to be a bald-faced lie.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    In favor of JP's argument, I'm sure some pastors prefer musicians who just do whatever people ask for, and are not argumentative.

    So musicians ought to decide how they use social media, how they present themselves and their views, and not create obstacles for themselves.

    I can certainly think of people I would hesitate to recommend because they have a history of unnecessary quarrelling.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,187
    I saw what you did there @chonak
    Thanked by 2Liam CHGiffen
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    Also, is this disavowment of the national anthem even a mainstream political position in the States on either side? I could understand being hesitant about a candidate if s/he peddled hate symbols, for instance, but opposition to the anthem itself strikes me as a rather extreme, non-mainstream viewpoint.

    If so, it's hardly reasonable to expect most individuals here or, indeed, anywhere, to hold your particular position. Furthermore, bringing such a viewpoint here seems counter to your goals of de-politicizing the CMAA.
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    I’m an ideologue. I admit it. I propound the ideology of the Holy Catholic Church.
    Also, charity, fraternity, unity, patriotism, beauty, truth, goodness etc, etc.

    And John Rutter writes crappy music.

    There, that should be enough to get me blacklisted in England...
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    Schonberg it’s part of the larger BLM movement which advocates the kneeling to protest the anthem, the flag, etc which has now been wholeheartedly adopted by major US sports leagues
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    I don't think non-religious songs like The Star-Spangled Banner belong in church, but some musicians need to play them, perhaps in schools.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    I for one can't remember ever encountering The Star Spangled Banner while attending Mass over 55 years. It would be quite strange. Except perhaps it were followed on its heels by - as it might well be - "Play ball!". (Crotch grabbing optional. Think of that as muted percussion.)
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    I thought the rubrics stated that it accompanied the priest reading out football scores during Mass.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • davido
    Posts: 944
    I wish I could avoid all the American patriotic songs at mass. It is a Roman Catholic Church, not an American church.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    The example I gave was meant to suggest a tongue-in-cheek scenario where I could see it coming in handy that the The Star Spangled Banner was included in the hymnal we had. Also in general to illustrate the sentiments with which the singing of a national anthem may be accompanied. But the chances of such a need occurring are small, I hope.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    NOTE: I did not post this arrangement to be sung in the church at all. It is for other activities that are separate from church services... school or home or on the ball field or whatever.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen CCooze chonak
  • If the National Anthem were in Latin would it be a Motet?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    There are secular motets.
    Thanked by 2CCooze CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    What is FREEDOM?

    The world has fallen to the notion that freedom is found in the pursuit of "LIFE" at all costs. One of the most poignant descriptions I have heard of late is 'the dictatorship of health' is upon us. We have now reached a point where society presents our 'health' as the ultimate and most important pursuit... at the cost of everything else. Our faith and our religion has been proclaimed 'unessential'... even by our own hierarchy of bishops. Our jobs, schooling our children and our economy must be put on hold for the 'greater good... of health'. But is this truly for the greater good of man, or have we fallen to a deadly short sighted deception?

    Unfortunately, this dictatorial pursuit only concerns itself with physical and temporal health, and forsakes the most critical, the spiritual and eternal. In this distortion, everyone's life must be altered, reinvented and reconstructed. In the name of 'freedom' an unfettered pursuit of FALSE FREEDOM thinks it can remake life divorced from the Almighty Himself. We will make our own truths, dogma will be 'brought forward' so as to meet the needs of today's modern man and his 'evolved' and elevated way of thinking and understanding. Nothing escapes being remade in the image of man instead of God. We will make our own rules, our own morality and our OWN god(s).

    In his famous address in the Harvard commencement of 1978 Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn stated:
    "And yet in early democracies, as in American democracy at the time of its birth, all individual human rights were granted on the ground that man is God’s creature. That is, freedom was given to the individual conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility. Such was the heritage of the preceding one thousand years. Two hundred or even fifty years ago, it would have seemed quite impossible, in America, that an individual be granted boundless freedom with no purpose, simply for the satisfaction of his whims. Subsequently, however all such limitations were eroded everywhere in the West; a total emancipation occurred from the moral heritage of Christian centuries with their great reserves of mercy and sacrifice. State systems were becoming ever more materialistic. The West has finally achieved the rights of man, and even to excess, but man’s sense of responsibility to God and society has grown dimmer and dimmer."


    Today, a sermon was delivered on this Feast of the Assumption in France at the monastery of Fontgombault, and 'freedom' was also the subject at hand. Here is the observation of the DOM.

    "To this day, for many of our contemporaries, and sometimes even for ourselves, living far from God, letting go of His commandments, means marching on and conquering a more actual and more comprehensive freedom, it means working at the progress of our human race… Yet, is that so certain? Willingly living far from God means renouncing the light of Christ that was to recreate man in the image of God. It also means renouncing to live fully in the light of the first word, the word of creation. Freedom, which consists in receiving as a gift the work of God, in stepping into the fair harmony of the divine plan, in making one’s own the fact of being a man or a woman, in unfolding this being amidst creation, and especially amidst the other men and women, this true freedom gives way to its caricature, a freedom that is brazen, rebellious, slumped over itself, shackled by the frantic desire to obtain what has never been obtained, to live what has never been lived. 

    The state of the earth, of men, of societies, already bears witness to the consequences stemming from the refusal of the fair order given by the divine intelligence and love: chaos in nature, chaos in families, chaos in society, chaos in the heart of man. Man, the protagonist of progress, proclaims himself the master of all things. Boundaries yield, until they reach those of absurdity. For a long time now, the legislative machine has embarked on an inexorable runaway race. It is so easy to pass laws that go against common sense. Will it be as easy to subjugate creation and creatures, the victims, to our lack of common sense?"

    Assumption of Our Lady
    Sermon for the Mass

    Sermon of the Right Reverend Dom Jean Pateau
    Abbot of Our Lady of Fontgombault
    Fontgombault, August 15, 2020


    So, the challenge for us today and the days to follow will be to proclaim true freedom... not the unbridled freedom that stems from the whims of men who flitter and flatter from day to day with a new and constantly changing rule of life and definition of freedom.

    America... Let (TRUE) Freedom Ring.

    As the old hymn exhorts us... "Turn back, O man and forswear your foolish ways."

    NOTE: The Sermon of the Rev. Pateau can be read in full here:

    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2020/08/fontgombault-sermon-for-assumption-of.html
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    Ask George Floyd if the Star-Spangled Banner yet waves o’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,826
    @Gamba

    The problem with your point is that these kinds of things cannot let us dismiss patriotism and the law... that is a ruse for dealing with the real issue... sin. What about McCarick and his ilk? Does that mean we should not be Catholic? Absurd. People not worthy of their office should be removed, defrocked, and brought to justice.

    Defective people take part in every office in life, including the Vatican, the federal government, and the child care down the street.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    This isn't enriching our understanding of music either. Francis, I'm sure you aren't on the side of death and disease and know in your own mind what you mean by railing at ""LIFE" at all costs and 'the dictatorship of health', but has it occurred to you how diabolical this sounds to an average reader?
    Thanked by 3chonak Schönbergian JL
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    @Francis The Church was founded by Jesus Christ, with his promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. America is a human invention, with a facade of theoretical ideals of freedom built on the foundation of subjugation and domination of minorities, to serve the material interests of the powerful.

    All the same, I wouldn’t sing a hymn to the effect that the Church Militant is always noble and fantastic and full of really great people. It just isn’t true. With America, there’s no America Triumphant or even a platonic idea of America to hymn – just the wretched reality of life on this particular landmass. So I see no sense in singing the glories of an objectively flawed and structurally-unjust state.

    If sin is the issue.....is there no sin in Europe, or in any other functioning country where the police don’t regularly kill and maim civilians?

  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    Well, @Gamba, if one were to google "police brutality Italy" or "police brutality France" etc, there are articles. It appears that perhaps the USA is not the only place where the police are brutal at times.
    Perhaps it's not as provocative if everyone involved has the same skin tone, though.

    Also, on the topic of the American flag and anthem, wasn't it the American flag that led the troops who were fighting the South and slavery?