Stella Caeli Extirpavit
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    Here is what I had in mind sort of. I did not type set the chant yet, so I just took a photo of it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Very interesting. Thank you.
    Thanked by 1sdtalley3
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    I guess what I need is: notes w/out stems and free rhythm, or time changes that hide the alteration. This is not possible in my version of Finale, so I'll be exploring this later.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    You can easily do this in Sibelius with free rhythm. But are you wishing to use neumes instead?
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @ francis

    Both neums or stemless notes work for me.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    then sibelius can do this quite easy... do you have a .mid file of your comp?
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    I can convert the file to a midi, and send to you if that is ok. The only thing is, I get off of work at 5:30 EST, so around 6:00 I can do this.
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 279
    This is lovely! Very glad someone else has taken a look at this. We sung the chant last Sunday alternating cantor and chorus with organ providing a drone. It's very haunting.

    The voices aside from the original chant don't have text - do you intend for them to pick a vowel to vocalise or to join in the text at times?
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @m_r_taylor

    For the most part everything would be sung in unison except the last verse where the bassus becomes a "drone", and the superius should be in unison with the cantus; that's the idea for now, and I can fix that later as well.
    Thanked by 1m_r_taylor
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    @sdtalley3

    Yes, do send a .mid file and I will set it for you... it shouldn't take but 30 min or so
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,869
    I fiddled around with the GABC "polyphony" mechanism, and (using the GregoBase GABC code for "Stella caeli exterpavit") and sdtalley's score, managed to get a start on something perhaps close to what he wants. I only set the first (three part) phrase as well as the "Salva nos..." (the latter as best I could). If this is a good enough start, there shouldn't be too much problem with finishing the code.

    A PDF is attached, and here is the GABC code:
    name:Stella caeli;
    office-part:Varia;
    mode:1;
    commentary:s. XV;
    %%
    (c4)Stel(d)la(h') cæ(h)li(g') ex(h)stir(j')pá(i)vit,(g.) *(,) quæ({l}{g'}i)
    la({m}{h}j)ctá({k}{f'}h)vit({l}{e}i) Dó({j}{e'}g)mi({k}{e}h)num :({k.}{d.}h.) (::)
    Mor(d)tis(h') pe(h)stem(g') quam(h) plan(j')tá(i)vit(g.) (,) pri(i')mus(j)
    pa(h')rens(i) hó(g')mi(h)num.(h.) (::)
    I(h)psa(g') stel(f)la(e') nunc(g) di(h')gné(h)tur(g.) (,) sí(j')de(i)ra(h')
    com(i)pé(g')sce(h)re,(h.) (::)
    Quo(h)rum(g') bel(f)la(e') ple(g)bem(h') cæ(h)dunt(g.) (,) di(j')ræ(i)
    mor(h')tis(i) úl(g')ce(h)re.(h.) (::)

    O(k') pi(k)ís(j')si(k)ma(h'_) stel(k)la(j) ma(ih)ris,(g.) (,) a(i') pe(j)ste(h')
    suc(i)cúr(h)re(g') no(h)bis.(h.) (::)
    Au(k')di(k) nos,(j') Dó(k)mi(k)na,(h'_) nam(k) fi(k')li(j)us(i) tu(h)us(g.) (,)
    ni(i')hil(j) ne(h')gans(i) te(h) ho(g')nó(h)rat.(h.) (::)
    (dr0)Sal({kr0 }hgh)va(d') nos(h) Ie({kr}gf)su,({lr}{cr}e.) (,) pro({jr0}{cr0}f')
    qui(g)bus(e') Vir(f)go(g) Ma({kr}{ar}fe)ter({k}d) te({lm}cd)
    o({ml!kr}{ar}de!fvED'e)rat.({jk..}{ar}ed..) (::)
    Thanked by 2m_r_taylor chonak
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    Wow, thanks CHGiffen!
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    I was able to notate into chant the different parts until I can find or make a format that works for all three together.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    @sdtalley3

    Since GABC PDF is a transparent postscript image, i was able to superimpose them to achieve this from your pdf. Although this is possible, why would you not want to just do this in modern notation?
    1020 x 230 - 38K
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    Yes modern notation is more ideal. I would just want to clean up the original format I had on the Finale file, and have unindicated time changes to keep the tactus as is in the chant. For me it looks messy dealing with many time changes within a piece.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    please read your PM
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,497
    Here's a quarter hour of playing with Sibelius. Stemless notes are a couple of clicks, but to my thinking less clear than beamed quavers a la Duruflé Ubi caritas. The icti, though, seem to imply a march step, so why not 2/4 and a few decisions about the ending?
    Thanked by 2m_r_taylor sdtalley3
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,497
    With homophonic text settings in GABC you can get, if not a score, three well aligned systems with the "Z" system break.

    name: ;
    user-notes: ;
    commentary: ;
    annotation: ;
    centering-scheme: english;
    %fontsize: 12;
    %spacing: vichi;
    %font: OFLSortsMillGoudy;
    %width: 5;
    %height: 11;
    %%
    (c4)
    Stel(d)la(h') cæ(h)li(g') ex(h)stir(i')pá(i)vit,(g.) *(::) Mor(d)tis(h') pe(h)stem(g') quam(h) plan(j')tá(i)vit(g.) (,Z)
    (c4)quæ(i) la(j)ctá(h)vit(i) Dó(g)mi(h)num :(h.) (::) pri(i')mus(j)
    pa(h')rens(i) hó(g')mi(h)num.(h.) (::Z)
    (c1)quæ(f) la(g)ctá(e)vit(f) Dó(d)mi(e)num :(e.) (::) pri(i')mus(j)
    pa(h')rens(i) hó(g')mi(h)num.(h.) (::Z)
    (c4)quæ(g) la(h)ctá(f)vit(e) Dó(e)mi(e)num :(d.) (::) pri(i')mus(j)
    pa(h')rens(i) hó(g')mi(h)num.(h.) (::Z)

    Mor(d)tis(h') pe(h)stem(g') quam(h) plan(j')tá(i)vit(g.) (,) pri(i')mus(j)
    pa(h')rens(i) hó(g')mi(h)num.(h.) (::)
    Thanked by 1sdtalley3
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    This was kindly done for me by Francis.
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @ Richard Mix

    Thank you Richard for showing this feature. It will definitely come in handy in the future for hymns with verses in chant.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,497
    Has this chant already been Englished? I came across it again in a blog, to a 'restored' melody, and played at it, obviously far from a finished draft:

    supertitle:;
    title:Stella cæli exstirpavit;
    subtitle:;
    text-left:;
    text-right:;
    annotation:;
    %%
    (c4)
    Star(d) of(h) Heav(h)en,(g) who(h) did(i) tri(i)umph(g) (,)
    when(i) you(j) gave(h) suck(i) to(g) the(h) Lord(h.)(:z)
    ov(d)er(h) that(h) first(g) plague(h) which(i) A(i)dam(g) (,)
    plant(i)ed(j) in(h) the(i) hu(g)man(h) horde:(h.) (::z)

    May(h) this(g) Star(f) now(e) deign(g) to(h) shield(h) us(g) (,)
    from(j) the(i) heaven(h)ly(i) pla(g)nets'(h) wars(h.) (:z)
    whose(h) fell(g) bat(f)tles(e) slay(g) your(h) peo(h)ple(g) (,)
    with(j) dread(i) pest(h)i(i)len(g)tial(h) sores.(h.) (::Z)

    O(k) most(k) kind(h) and(k) lov(j)ing(i) Star(h) of(g) the(f) sea(e.) (,)
    res(i)cue(j) us(h) from(i) pest(h)i(g)lence;(h.) (:z)
    Hear(k) our(k) prayer,(h) Our(k) La(j)dy,(i) for(hg) Thy(f) Son(e.) (:)
    no(i)thing(j) will(h) de(i)ny(hg) Thee.(h.) (::Z)

    Save(hgh) us,(d) O(h) Je(gf)su,(e) (,) through(f) whose(g) hon(e)oured(f) Moth(g)er(fe) we(d) now(cd) pray.(defEDeed..) (::)
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @Richard Mix, no I haven’t come across it set to English so yours is the first.
  • This one (Richard's pdf) clearly has a poet's touch missing in some spots.

  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,537
    [re: SDT] Indeed, this is novel to me too.

    It is a bit sad that interest in this chant has waned. It is as much a cry for our Lady to save us from sin as it is from physical illness.
  • We use the Latin every morning at our family prayers.
    Thanked by 2sdtalley3 francis
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,537
    I was rather amazed, because my you tube video of this now has over 21k views; that’s quite unheard of for my channel. The demographics are also interesting, with the highest concentration of interest —by far— being 25-34 year olds. (This trend repeats itself pretty heavily, adding in the 18-24yo’s for my other chant stuff.)

    “We need to give the youth a liturgy that speaks to them!!!”
    (If only the pundits who frequently peddle variations of this phrase would take their own advice seriously.)
  • Serviam,

    They take their advice seriously, but they don't understand what actually speaks to these young persons, because it doesn't speak to the pundits.
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @ServiamScores

    “We need to give the youth a liturgy that speaks to them!!!”

    I truly believe that the liturgy that speaks to the youth is what they digest from an early age. Also kids might enjoy "candy and sweets" at an early age, but it's detrimental to their health. Solid meals might be a bit less to be desired, but the long term consequences are better.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    (Soapbox) Just... don’t... get... me.... started! (EndSoapbox)

  • Wait, Francis,... you don't rant. You're always the picture of restraint, moderation and equivocation.....
    Thanked by 1francis
  • VocesCapituli
    Posts: 92
    This is what our friend Luca Spada composed for us. It was a gift for us when the churches shut down in 2020 and singing was prohibited.
    Thanked by 1sdtalley3
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,776
    I guess I had a JTB syndrome for years and I have developed a “done here” mentality with the forum I suppose. Now is the time for all energy to go solely toward reparation and finding those who wish to do the same befire the sky falls.
    Thanked by 1sdtalley3
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 279
    Daniel Mitsui has written a versified English translation of Stella Caeli: http://www.danielmitsui.com/00_pages/poetry.html#o_star_of_heaven
  • sdtalley3sdtalley3
    Posts: 232
    @ m_r_taylor

    I really like the poetry in the link you provided, and reminds me of when I was listening to the podcast the Institute for Catholic Culture. The priest giving the lecture was talking about how good poetry facilitates good music and bad poetry does likewise with bad music. This simple concept "clicked" right away with me but unfortunately I haven't dedicated enough of my time or efforts into the mechanics of poetry yet. It is a subject I am greatly interested in all the same. A note about the attachment is: there's some liberty taken with the translation (this is understandable), so I would've liked to have see something in the last stanza along the lines to the "Salva nos Jesu" part of the hymn...Just my personal desire. Richard Mix's work is a little more literal to what I anticipated directly from the hymn.